Oh, I get it. Once you sober up, the crime disappears? Is that it? Good luck with that one.
On review, I retract my remark. However, I think your case is kina weak. If you can afford the fine, pay up and stay out of Wildwood next Memorial Day.
I didn’t say they weren’t. You brought up what you thought was an unreasonable time to have a party and that there was noise and then said " “It’s a big time for drinking” isn’t really much of an excuse." My point was that time and noise also aren’t relevant.
I didn’t imply any such thing. I said that what you think is an unreasonable time to party has nothing to do with the charge.
You need probably cause + exigent circumstances to go into a private home without a warrant.
What are the exigent circumstances?
My guess is they’d say they’re doing some kind of ‘community caretaking’ function - they saw kids ‘passed out’ and empty bottles and thought somebody might need medical attention.
The PC is also weak. They’d have to be willing to say they could tell by looking that the kids were underaged…
Anyway, it doesn’t really matter, because unless somebody’s going to hire a lawyer to fight a fine that’s probably less than what the lawyer would charge, it’s not going to get litigated anyway.
Well, they weren’t really in plain sight. The officers had to go up 2 sets of stairs to come up to where we were staying.
What’s weak about not being caught drinking in a hotel room where others were? If he didn’t actually get caught drinking, what’s weak about it?
No. Just the evidence.
Here’s a link http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/03267/225302.stm to an almost identical situation in the same place. Four years ago, but take it to heart.
After reading the article, I would go with hiring a lawyer.
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Wouldn’t the prosecution consider what the law in their area is with minors in possession of “open containers” of alcohol?
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In the OP, you just said you heard someone yelling, but you didn’t say what they yelled. I can see a police officer kicking the door in if he first says, “Open the door” and then hears the lock clicking.
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I can also see the police showing up to a call from management or other guests/neighbors calling on a noise complaint. Almost everywhere I’ve lived around the world has had legislated “quiet hours” or legislated “noise thresholds.”
Considering you (underage) and your friends (legal?) threw a party where underage drinking occurred, you knew underage drinking was taking place, and the police eventually arrived, your best bet is to contact a lawyer. Only then you might have an understanding that a “kicked in door” is the least of your worries.
Assuming that your investigation indicates that the usual penalty would be a fine:
I would forego the lawyer, meet with the prosecuting attorneys before the case is called, and ask them to consider adjournment in contemplation of dismissal. You have no prior record of arrests for underage drinking (yes?) and the only evidence they have is that you were found in a room within the same building as some empty bottles of alcoholic beverage (right?). You can make those points to the prosecutor, once, but do not get into an argument with the prosecutor and do not make any additional statements.
If the prosecuting attorney will not make a deal, plead not guilty, DO NOT introduce any evidence yourself, ask the judge if you may ask questions of the police officer who is witness for the prosecution, and the question you ask is whether it is true that the evidence that you were drinking underage consists solely of the fact that you were found in a room within the same building as some empty bottles of alcoholic beverage. If the PO does not concede that such is the case, ask the PO to elaborate on what the additional evidence that you, personallly, were engaged in underage drinking consists of.
Again, do not introduce any evidence yourself, including stating for the record that no, you were not drinking (or that yes, you were, for that matter).
Your questions to the police officer will make your case to the judge. Your case is that the prosecution has no case.
It should not come to that. The prosecutor should accept your adjournment in contemplation of dismissal request, it’s reasonable.
I am not a lawyer. I am not a law student. I’ve never taken a course in law in my life. Click here to signify that you agree I am not liable for the effects of my advice should you decide to take it, etc.
I think you’re confused. I was pretty clear about differentiating my comments between legal issues and moral issues. If you are being noisy and obnoxious and bothering the neighbors, then I don’t think it’s appropriate to feel indignant about the cops showing up. I said that if he’s going to court merely out of some sense of moral indignation, that he should save the trip, because I don’t think there’s cause to be indignant about this.
But you are talking about what’s relevant to the legal issues specific to the citation, which I was clear to treat as a seperate issue.
But what I think isn’t the issue. You are not legally entitled to make noise in the middle of the night and keep your neighbors awake. That is an objective fact, not MY opinion. I don’t think you read my post carefully, because I never said he was charged with anything related to noise. I do suspect that’s why the cops showed up in the first place, though.
At your age you should be out dying for your country, not partying with friends who can put you in harmful situations. :rolleyes:
I think it’s going to be tough to get useful advice from a national audience for violation of local ordinances…I just finished raising a few children so the…ahem–situation–is not unknown to me.
In my town your problem is that you were occupying a condo at which there was evidence of alcohol consumption and you don’t have anyone of age who can step up and say, “Hey, those were MY beers.”
If, for whatever reason, it’s a big deal, you need a lawyer. ONLY a lawyer can give you worthwhile advice; among other things they will know the specific local ramifications of taking this to court in their jurisdiction. You can get such advice on an hourly consultation basis, but going to court will likely cost more than $1,000 in lawyer fees.
Absent rounding up some friends who are of age I don’t think you’ll beat this ticket on your own. You are not being fined for intoxication; you are being fined for underage drinking, so your alcohol level at the time of the citation is irrelevant. The evidence for the drinking is not alcohol in your blood but the pyramid of beer cans in your dwelling place (although these may have been left by the prior occupants, of course… 
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Of what? Littering? Is it illegal to have empty beer cans in a condominium?
So is it really on him to prove his innocence in this case, instead of on the prosecution to prove guilt? That’s crazy. So any minor in the presence of empty alcohol containers can be charged with underage drinking? Don’t cops have access to breathalyzers any more? That would seem to be a much more reliable form of evidence of consumption of alcohol than the presence of beer bottles. I really don’t get how they can call such circumstantial evidence “proof.”
It depends on the language in the law as to what constitutes “underage drinking,” and the OP has not identified the specific jurisdiction where this took place. However, in New Jersey, the relevant state law provides not just a $200 fine but a six-month suspension of the driver’s license for individuals convicted of underage drinking. Based on that, I’ll second what others have said about consulting an attorney.
See, here’s where I start to feel like a geezer.
He IS guilty, for goodness’ sake; he said so in his original post–just like the evidence suggests. Getting on a high horse about the presumption of innocence makes for lovely abstract discussion, but on average the occupant of a domicile filled with empty alcohol containers and no one of age to have consumed them has a tough row to hoe asking for some other additional proof.
We public who sit on juries are also parents and observers. We aren’t stupid. In my town there is quite a little fervor about underage drinking.
Anyway, a lawyer could answer your question better than I. I know what I would think, and in this case, guess what? I’d be right.
There is a possibility that the officer smelled booze on teemingONE breath as well as any he may have spilled on his clothes.
That could well be accepted as more than just empties laying around the hotel room.
Consult a lawyer.
I feel like a geezer too.
Pay your fine, take your medicine.
In 10 years you’ll laugh about this.
I’m laughing now.
And this is probably something you’ll want to ask about. I don’t know what the normal procedure is there, but I was caught in a parking lot with a bottle of beer (unopened) by a cop, about a week shy of my 21st birthday. He took the beer (and my driver’s license, although I wasn’t anywhere near my car), gave me a ticket, and told me I could pay the fine via mail if I didn’t want to go to court.
However, when I called to request the fine amount, I was told I had to appear before the judge. I did so (now a month or so past 21) and was ordered to take a “mental health evaluation” to determine whether I had a drinking problem. Depending on the results, I might be required to attend some kind of alcohol awareness class, be urine-tested, and possibly compelled to attend AA meetings.
I took the test (multiple choice, $50 out of my pocket) and two weeks later received my driver’s license back along with a letter saying no further action was required.
I’d have much preferred to just pay a fine and get it overwith, but apparently some jurisdictions have other ideas of how to handle underage drinking/alcohol possession offenses.