…between these two guys:
and:
God Wants You to be an Atheist by Dr. Gary Whittenberger
They both appear to be serious, even the second guy.
Pro-religion atheists I’ve heard of. Plato. Winston Churchill. I idly wondered if there had ever been a case of the converse, did some googling, and darned if I didn’t find it…
Plato wasn’t an atheist, at least not if the Socratic dialogues are a good guide to his thought.
“God exists, but I don’t believe in him.” -Jean Baudrillard
so i guess if it made people feel better to believe in fairy tales the first author would endorse it. oh wait, he did…
I can see how it might work: “Okay, go ahead, and presume there is no God. Now, see where that leads. If you don’t like it, then re-consider the premise.”
Or, “Throw away all pre-conceived ideas, and do the basic research for yourself. Make up your own mind, based solely on the evidence.”
Many Christians are authority-based…but not all.
There is no debate. Atheists have little to complain or argue about religion.
Shouldn’t this thread be under “Great Debates” or is this issue settled?
Reported.
It struck me as more of a MPSIMSy thread.
Yes, but…this guy appears to be saying, seriously, that God exists but wants us to be atheists (kind of a catch 22 now that I think about it). The notion that God actively desires disbelief in Himself is being advanced. It looks like something genuinely new under the sun…
Only if those two gentlemen actually came here and had the debate. Or some Dopers stand in for them. It seems unlikely.
Ever see two Canadians at a four way stop?
“Oh, no! you first”
“No please! After you.”
I think you misunderstood the OP. Now if Misters Sheiman and Whittenberger actually decided to debate on this forum that would certainly belong in Great Debates. Simply musing that the debate would be interesting isn’t in itself a debate, is it?
Clarified that way…yeah. I can’t say I’ve ever seen anything quite like it.
It smacks just a little of Zen. “Brother Jen said to God, ‘I believe in you.’ God smacked Brother Jen on the forehead. Brother Jan said to God, ‘I have faith in you.’ God slapped Brother Jan on the knuckles. Brother Jun said to God, ‘I doubt your existence.’ God gave brother Jun the noogies, and a nipple-twister for good measure. But Brother Jin said, ‘Hello? Is anyone there? I guess not.’ And God nodded sagely and left Brother Jin unmolested.”
Really? Because I’ve been considering the idea for some time now, ever since my son declared that he doesn’t believe in God (I’m a believer, and my wife’s an atheist; in this particular issue, he took her side). I mean, God, being God, doesn’t actually *need *us to believe in him, and if the human race is better off without religion - something that can definitely be argued - wouldn’t God be in favor of that?
But if so…wouldn’t God either stay out of affairs entirely, as in the deist notion of winding up the clock and then just letting it run, or, if intervention is necessary, doing it secretly? (Like Superman rescuing people at super-speed, so no one actually observes it being done?)
If this is what God did, then no religious doctrine can be depended on: they would all be human constructs, no one any more valid than any other.
But if that’s the case…what reason do we have to imagine a God of any sort, at all? The very concept would have no foundation.
There seems to be no way of knowing. Maybe the “Master Computer” is astonished that we have gone so far awry in deducing its existence. Or maybe the “Great Trickster” is laughing his ass off at the vast and complex theological edifices we have erected.
Maybe religion was something we needed in the past, but we’re matured enough, as a species, that now it’s just a crutch. Maybe it’s time for God to send us off to college.
“Dear God, save us from the people who believe in you.” – Post-9/11 graffiti