Ian Thorpe isn't fit to lick vegemite off Michael Phelps' ass.

[Ogre]

So, all you guys taking a free ride on Thorpe/Phelps/Van den Hoogenband’s backs to get your nationalistic tribalism jolleys - just remember something - you guys AREN’T the one’s who did the hard work.

BELCH

So what? You may have noticed that Olympians are consistently billed as going to the Games “representing their country.” If the residents of said country get a little excited, hoping their man (or whatever) wins, and that pisses the athletes off, tough nookie, baby

I reserve the right to howl, cheer, jump up and down, use face paint and/or large foam fingers, throw keggers, and egg the opposing team/athlete before and after said competition. And nuts to anybody who says I can’t, or who looks down their aquiline, patrician nose at me for doing it.

It’s called being a “fan,” and without all those dirty, lazy “fans,” any organized sport would be strictly local phenomena, as we fans put up a great deal of the funding that allows these spectacles.

That said, perhaps it escaped your notice that this thread has been entirely light-hearted from the word go. Be calm.

Congrats, Thorpe, and Australia (even the fat, lazy ones who cheered for Thorpe but never swam a stroke in their lives.)

[TheLoadedDog]

@Coldfire

And TLD, let it be known that I’ve never defended Heineken, and I have no intentions to start now.

No worries Coldie. I know your views on Heineken, which was why I decided to be gentle. Of course, my fingers hesitated over the keyboard as I wondered whether I should type G…r…o…l…s…c…h…

Seriously, does Heineken taste like bananas to you? Sometimes when I’ve had it it has a banana taste. Not real bananas, but the banana flavour confectioners sometimes use. When I was homebrewing, I remember that this chemical could sometimes be produced as an undesirable byproduct if you weren’t careful. Seems a bit dodgy that a huge international brewery would be letting this happen. The only cool thing about Heineken is the label. It’s the classic beer bottle.

[Dead_Badger]

@Boo Boo Foo

So, all you guys taking a free ride on Thorpe/Phelps/Van den Hoogenband’s backs to get your nationalistic tribalism jolleys - just remember something - you guys AREN’T the one’s who did the hard work.

You’re kidding, right? This thread has to be about the friendliest, most light-hearted case of nationalism I’ve seen. If only it were all like this. Of course, I can say that since “my guy” came 7th. No anglo-centrism there, more a case of bottomism (although a true Brit would never be caught with Vegemite up his arse, only Marmite).

Anyway, yay Thorpe.

[Boo_Boo_Foo]

@Ogre

So what? You may have noticed that Olympians are consistently billed as going to the Games “representing their country.” If the residents of said country get a little excited, hoping their man (or whatever) wins, and that pisses the athletes off, tough nookie, baby

I reserve the right to howl, cheer, jump up and down, use face paint and/or large foam fingers, throw keggers, and egg the opposing team/athlete before and after said competition. And nuts to anybody who says I can’t, or who looks down their aquiline, patrician nose at me for doing it.

Fair enough…

Ask yourself this question however… WHY are you a fan? WHY do you cheer for your countryman over another country’s competitor? I’m not going to be so conceited as to tell you what YOU are feeling when you do so… that would be very poor form on my part.

But mark my words when I say this… in 1984 we had a huge national marketing drive to collect public funding to help pay our way for our Olympians to get to Los Angeles. My fellow Australians will probably remember those quadrennial funding drives. That was a different era. An amateur era. Now, however, the Olympics are a gargantuan corporate entity and the keen observer will note that such public funding drives no longer seem to be necessary.

My position is this - the Olympics have perfected the art of tapping into nationalism - which by extension is yet another form of tribalism. At the competitor’s level, an awful, awful lot of that is perceived as being incredibly tacky and exploitative. A few athletes buy into it, (and they’re usually the ones with agents and massive media deals) but a shitload more feel like telling everyone to “just fuck off - go exploit someone else”.

So no hard feelings here fellow Dopers. I’m merely wishing to give you another perspective which is often easily overlooked.

[Coldfire]

TLD, I haven’t noticed a banana flavour to Heineken, but then I rarely drink the export version, if ever. It should also be noted that Heineken has breweries all over the world, and might cater to local tastes. So maybe some marketing genius at Heineken Down Under Ltd. saw someone throw a 'nana on the barbie, and decided it would be a cool idea to put it in the Australian version of this already piss-poor beer?

[TheLoadedDog]

For some reason, brewing foreign beers under licence is not common in Australia. I’ve had local Heineken in Vietnam, Hong Kong, and Thailand, but the Australian version is the real Dutch deal. Which is why it’s overpriced.

The banana thing isn’t always there. Heineken isn’t consistent. As lawnmower beers go, it’s a reasonably good one. Well, better than Fosters.

What was this thread about again?

[Coldfire]

I think it was about Michael Phelps drinking Heineken out of Ian Thorpe’s arse, or something. Then it derailed completely with people bitching about how vegemite tastes like bananas.

[Gest]

@Boo Boo Foo

But mark my words when I say this… in 1984 we had a huge national marketing drive to collect public funding to help pay our way for our Olympians to get to Los Angeles. My fellow Australians will probably remember those quadrennial funding drives. That was a different era. An amateur era. Now, however, the Olympics are a gargantuan corporate entity and the keen observer will note that such public funding drives no longer seem to be necessary.

Australia has a massive East German style programme for elite sports. If you don’t see funding drives, it’s because the goverment doesn’t even bother to ask the people if they want to support it. It’s an essential area of expenditure now. Funding drives are for schools, hospitals and community level sports now. We’re the fattest nation behind America (and some Pacific micro-states) but at least we continue to portray this image of a sunburnt, athletic nation of Spartans.

[roger_thornhill]

I’m amazed at the capacity of people to gloss over the essential reason why Phelps trailed in third. He was still trying to switch off his discman when the other blokes dived in the water. I knew something was up when he couldn’t hear the announcers introducing him to the crowd. Among all those star spangled track-suited team-mates waving flags when his name came up, didn’t anyone else notice the fellow (presumably his coach, or it could have been his psychologist or his agent) who was frantically semaphoring to him to take his headphones off?

If you doubt me, just consider how fast he swam in the final length when he had finally sloughed off all his equipment. Expect a slew of golds once team Phelps has sorted out the technical problems.

[Boo_Boo_Foo]

Ahhhh yes, with hindsight I have to apologise to my fellow Dopers and admit that before I posted my first post in this thread, I DID NOT read all of the preceding posts. In doing so, I’m happy to concede that I missed a lot of the good natured banter which had been written down, and for that I’m very sorry.

Now, just as one last slight hi-jack, I’d like to comment on a previous comment if I may, regarding the Australian sporting obsession as being almost like an East German program?

Look, as a former representative cyclist in the mid 80’s who personally competed against those fuckers, I gotta tell ya, no country on earth, in the entire history of humanity, has ever come within LIGHT YEARS of what the East Germans were up to.

Man, they used to have national scholastic assessment programs in ever single school across the nation for children aged between 6 and 14 years of age. At least 3 times a year, every single child in the country was put through a series of tests from long jumping to high jumping to throwing to sprints to swimming to cycling etc etc etc. And any kid who showed the slightest hint of prospect was whisked away to private boarding schools which specifically trained in certain sports - all with the parents blessing.

Indeed, every single East German cyclist I ever met had gone through this system. Every single one of 'em were in specialist government sports shools by the age of 12 or younger.

So, sure, we Australians might be serious about our sport, but I categorically refute the assertion that we’re as bad or as obsessive as the East Germans were. To prove my point, consider this little known fact - in 1988 everyone forgets that East Germany beat both the USA and the Soviet Union to win the Gold Medal tally with 35 Gold Medals. Australia has never come even close to that. And thank god too. We used to call the East German female cyclists “bullfrogs” coz that’s how fucking huge their asses were. And they used to shave too! On their faces!

[The_Llama]

From here

Michael PHELPS (USA) - bronze medallist

On whether he is disappointed with bronze:

“How can I be disappointed? I swam in a field with the two fastest 200m swimmers of all time, and I was with them. It was fun, I had fun doing it.”

On the 200m field:

“It was an exciting and a fast field.”

On trying to win seven gold medals, to emulate Mark SPITZ (USA) at the Munich 1972 Olympic Games:

“I had an opportunity and I tried to match what he did and I didn’t, but again it’s an honour to win one Olympic medal.”

On how he prepares mentally to race:

“I am extremely goal oriented, and if I don’t achieve them then I go back to the drawing board and try again.”

On how he plans to prepare for the Men’s 200m Butterfly, his next race, Tuesday 17 August:

“It is much more emotionally draining at an event like this. Trying to replenish those emotions for tomorrow is what I’m going try to do.”

On Ian THORPE (AUS):

“I think he has the perfect stroke. It’s unbelievable how he moves through the water. I swam next to him last night and thought wow, he creates such a big wave. We said congratulations to one another, but I needed to get to the warm down pool for the 200m Fly. He was on top of his game tonight, I think over the next few days we will have a few words.”

Say what you will, he’s mature for 19, and said all the right things. I like to believe that he really does look up to Thorp and van den hoogenband.
Fuckin Aussies, when there’s no Americans in the pool I root for you and you lose, and when there’s an American in the pool to root for, you kick his ass. jerks. Congrats Thorp! bastage

[mhendo]

I must admit, i was cheering for Thorpe. Not just 'cause i’m an Aussie, but anything that puts egg on the face of NBC’s idiot commentators is always welcome.

Like others have said, poor old Phelps had nowhere to go but down after all the expectation that the media is heaping on him in Athens. Even if he wins all gold from here on, the media will still be carping on about Spitz’s record.

Lost in all the hype about the race was the fact that Phelps was never the favorite to win the 200m freestyle. Hell, at best he was third-favorite, behind Van Den Hoogenband and Thorpe. And that’s what he got: third.

And in doing so, he swum his own personal best and set a new US record for the event. Pretty fucking good effort. Yet to listen to the fuckwits on the tele, you’d think it was some sort of major disappointment.

[leander]

@Boo Boo Foo

To prove my point, consider this little known fact - in 1988 everyone forgets that East Germany beat both the USA and the Soviet Union to win the Gold Medal tally with 35 Gold Medals.

You sure about that ?

[Gest]

My apologies for the hyperbole Boo Boo Foo. The fact remains that elite Australian athletes are given an enormously disproportionate amount of support for the tangible benefit they provide particularly since you competed. Sure, there are loads of people who approve of the expenditure but not everybody does. I certainly don’t and like minded people aren’t really visible in the media either so I think the media have a role in making this focus appear more popular than it really is. I couldn’t care less if Australia never won another medal again. In fact, every medal after these olympics represents at least a couple more million that could have been spent on health, education, R and D, an independent defence force or the first world’s most miserable indigenous people.

All funding for elite athletics and events grabbing should be completely diverted into community sports. That way, all taxpayers would benefit from an ensuing lower health expenditure and flow on effects from greater social cohesion. The appalling Cathy Freeman, Shane Warne and other parasites can pay back a percentage of the cost to get them where they are (like any working class uni student) and then fuck off and raise their own funds to keep them in the lifestyle they’ve become accustomed to. Warnie can stick with Nicabate and Chinos and our Cathy can hit the talk circuit to share her words of wisdom. I hate to say it but let the market decide this one.

[Boo_Boo_Foo]

@leander

You sure about that ?

Well then! Fancy that? I stand corrected… I was wro… I was wrrrr… I was rendezvousing with a different answer!

Man, all these years I coulda sworn I had my facts right on that one. Thank you for the correction. Still, in my defence, 2nd place overall behind the Soviets reinforces what I was saying about the East German system.

[Boo_Boo_Foo]

@Gest

My apologies for the hyperbole Boo Boo Foo. The fact remains that elite Australian athletes are given an enormously disproportionate amount of support for the tangible benefit they provide particularly since you competed.

I agree. Although I’ve found I have to be careful what I say these days so that I don’t come across as the crusty old bugger who says things like “Back in my day…”

@Gest

Sure, there are loads of people who approve of the expenditure but not everybody does. I certainly don’t and like minded people aren’t really visible in the media either so I think the media have a role in making this focus appear more popular than it really is.

Again, I agree. Marx’s quote that “sport is the opiate of the masses” always comes to mind, come Olympic time. It was just as bad in my day, but the open commercial exploitation wasn’t quite so pervasive I believe.

@Gest

I couldn’t care less if Australia never won another medal again. In fact, every medal after these olympics represents at least a couple more million that could have been spent on health, education, R and D, an independent defence force or the first world’s most miserable indigenous people.

There are “some” events I’m still interested in, but you can count 'em on one hand. Unfortunately, in the last 20 years there’s been a veritible explosion of the sum total of gold medals up for grabs. In my opinion, the decision to do this has played 100% into the hands of people who feel that the Gold Medal Table is the TRUE competition above all others. For this reason alone, I’m a seriously disenchanted former Olympian. The Gold Medal Table reflects something tacky in my opinion, and in no small way it serves as a means of sweeping one’s dirt under one’s social carpet as it were.

@Gest

All funding for elite athletics and events grabbing should be completely diverted into community sports. That way, all taxpayers would benefit from an ensuing lower health expenditure and flow on effects from greater social cohesion. The appalling Cathy Freeman, Shane Warne and other parasites can pay back a percentage of the cost to get them where they are (like any working class uni student) and then fuck off and raise their own funds to keep them in the lifestyle they’ve become accustomed to. Warnie can stick with Nicabate and Chinos and our Cathy can hit the talk circuit to share her words of wisdom. I hate to say it but let the market decide this one.

For the benefit of our overseas Dopers, it should be explained that Shane Warne might be a great cricketer, but he’s a truly shit husband who has failed a drug test. That he was given only half the sentence that any other sportsman in any other sport would have received is something that I’m ashamed of, as an Australian, to this day.

And words cannot describe the contempt I hold for Cathy Freeman. Not because of her looks or anything like that. And certainly not because of her indiginous background. Merely because she’s such an epic dumb fuck. Think of the most smarmy “the world revolves around me” NBA basketballer and put that personality into a dumb fuck female sprinter and you’ve got the right idea of what I’m talking about here.

Sadly, commercial TV being what it is, we’re gonna keep seeing that sorta crap.

[leander]

@Boo Boo Foo

Well then! Fancy that? I stand corrected… I was wro… I was wrrrr… I was rendezvousing with a different answer!

Man, all these years I coulda sworn I had my facts right on that one. Thank you for the correction. Still, in my defence, 2nd place overall behind the Soviets reinforces what I was saying about the East German system.

I agree completely. Those guys/gals/machines weren’t just scary lookin’, but were also bizarrely and supremely intense in their single-minded determination to win. Which I think is quite dissimilar from Aussies. Having just spent a great deal of time there, I’ve noticed that you folks are entirely different in your approach: Theirs was an obsession to win; yours is an obsession to play. Sure, you’re competitive as all hell, but you seem to be even more passionate about the process than the result.

I know these are vast generalizations, but it’s something I found incredibly endearing about the sporting atmosphere down under. I liken it to a businessman who loves the process of making money even more than having a big fat bank account at the end of the day. (Which again is not to say that he doesn’t enjoy the hell out of counting his spoils.)

[duffer]

@Boo Boo Foo

Well then! Fancy that? I stand corrected… I was wro… I was wrrrr… I was rendezvousing with a different answer!

I can’t wait to use this one in real life.

And Goddammit, Trunk! I just knew you were going to jinx it. Asshole! To make up for it, you must now cheer on the men’s b-ball team, AND start smack-threads about how good they are. (Maybe this will guarantee humiliation and we can go back to sending ameteurs!)

Thank you for your time. Now I need to get back to my obsessive hatred of NBC Sports.

[auliya]

@Boo Boo Foo

And words cannot describe the contempt I hold for Cathy Freeman. Not because of her looks or anything like that. And certainly not because of her indiginous background. Merely because she’s such an epic dumb fuck. Think of the most smarmy “the world revolves around me” NBA basketballer and put that personality into a dumb fuck female sprinter and you’ve got the right idea of what I’m talking about here.

Wow!!
You really do have shit on the liver atm BBF :eek:

Are you personally acquainted with Cathy Freeman? Or are you basing these observations on various TV interviews you have seen? Sure, Ms Freeman may not come across as a verbose and polished debutante - do you think she should?
I am stunned that you should even mention her looks - whats that got to do with anything? She is probably our most well known and well respected indigenous athlete, no one expects her to have a PhD in bloody philosophy, she is a runner, for goodness sakes .

This isn’t sour grapes rising to the surface because some people have attained successes at Olympic level and others (yourself perhaps?) haven’t? (correct me if I am wrong here - you mention you were a competitive cyclist, but don’t mention any Olympic representation)

[Atticus_Finch]

Boo boo foo, what’s your problem with Cathy Freeman? She might not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but she comes across as friendly and humble, certainly not conceited, “smarmy” or having a “world revolves around me” attitude. Seriously, where the hell are you getting all this shit from? She doesn’t even deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as a shithead like Warne.