Umm no, the governor of said state will respond by saying something that amounts to ‘What the fuck are you talking about?’
You’re conflating our ridiculous federal government falsely declaring that a state is in rebellion and a state actually declaring that it is in rebellion.
I’m responding to HMS talking about the government treating a state as if it was in rebellion, not just paying it lip service. (In which case, you’re right, the state would just tell the feds to piss off and go do something useful.) They described a situation where goons were kidnapping people and using force to prevent representatives from being able to serve.
That’s your definition, that’s what you believe to be the case, but it’s not binding on anybody or anything. The reality is nobody knows what would happen. Republicans will attempt to exploit unexplored circumstances precisely because there’s no real precedent.
In the actual US Civil War, representatives were expelled only after their states had seceded and the southern legislators had withdrawn from the US government and openly supported the rebellion. The expulsion wasn’t the precipitating event. It was just formal recognition of what the southern senators had already done by abandoning their seats.
Nobody really knows what would happen in a “reverse secession” scenario in which Trump declares Minnesota to be “basically in rebellion” and bars their Senators and reps from the chamber. Sure you could say that’s a “civil war”. Sure you could say armed revolt is justified. As an aside, Republicans would love to have that validation, but in reality, what’s Minnesota going to do about it? Send their National Guard to DC to seat representatives by force? Most likely they stay home. Maybe they expel some federal workers or even detain ICE, but that would earn them little except maybe a few judiciously placed Hellfire missiles.
The point is nobody knows what would happen in such a parliamentary coup. States would have no real recourse. It’s unprecedented but not outside the bounds of plausibility.
And here we are. Gestapo in the form of ICE. It’s not speculation. It is happening now and I am willing to bet it will only get worse before it gets better (if ever).
Full Title: Immigration officers around Minneapolis are approaching people and demanding proof that they’re U.S. citizens
The officers and agents the Trump administration has unleashed in Minneapolis and nearby communities have turned to stopping U.S. citizens, apparently at random, demanding identification and grilling them about their citizenship, residents who have recorded these encounters on video say.
The “show me your papers” encounters are showing up on social media and have even prompted podcaster Joe Rogan, a Trump backer in the 2024 campaign, to ask, “Are we really going to be the Gestapo?”
One man, Gage Diego Garcia, said he was held for six hours on Monday in Columbia Heights, Minnesota, after an encounter with officers that he told NBC News began when he was leaning into his friend’s car in an alleyway.
“They came off pretty aggressive and asking for my ID. I refused because I had done nothing wrong,” Garcia said. He said that, as he started to blow a whistle draped around his neck, agents “got angry and grabbed him.”
What law gives the president power to expel members of Congress?
None.
What law has been enforced against Trump or his cronies till now? Do you expect that to change?
Okay, then. So when Mad King Donald decrees that Minnesota’s congressional delegation is expelled they’ll just say “lol no” and continue attending and casting their votes anyway.
We’re not talking about that kind of law. There’s a difference between laws that say “you can do X” and “you can’t do X or else Y will happen”. There’s no law that says I can’t marry a carrot, but that doesn’t mean I CAN marry a carrot.
I’m sure there are lots of ways Trump could do it. Declare them traitors and insurrectionists and have them detained indefinitely. See how well they can vote from Alligator Alcatraz (or El Salvador).
Heck, they are already laying that groundwork:
Ever see that chilling video where Saddam Hussein has members of Iraqi congress members he didn’t like marched out of session and then disappeared? Don’t think Trump doesn’t dream of that day.
What law gives the president the power to declare someone a traitor and insurrectionist and have them detained indefinitely?
I assume he mainly dreams about large-breasted 15-year-olds feeding him cheeseburgers.
Are you kidding me? ICE is doing that right now. Has been doing it for some time. Violating rights of actual American citizens (not immigrants) and detaining them. Recently they detained severl native Americans for days (still are I think) and they are full-blown US citizens. Not to mention shooting and killing a woman for no reason. Ignored judges orders. Deported people who should not have been deported.
No law lets them do that. But they are doing it now without repercussion and show no signs of slowing down.
So there isn’t one, then.
OTOH, there very specifically IS a Constitutional clause that immunizes congressmen against arbitrary arrests.
There is also an emoluments clause in the constitution which Trump violated and nothing came of it.
ETA - A quick Google gave me this list of constitutional violations under Trump:
Separation of Powers and Rule of Law
First Amendment Rights
14th Amendment and Due Process
Emoluments Clause
Other Violations
You’re confusing affirmative and prohibitive laws again. A law that gives you the power to do something is different from a law that punishes you for doing something you’re not supposed to do.
The president cannot arbitrarily arrest members of Congress because they are privileged under the Constitution and there is no affirmative law that empowers him to override that privilege.
I am not arguing he would not be breaking the law. He definitely would be.
I am arguing he won’t give a shit because no one, so far, has stopped him. What makes you think they will stop him now?
So how come Hillary hasn’t been locked up? Why doesn’t he just declare her a traitor and insurrectionist and detain her indefinitely? Or Biden or Fauci or Comey or James or Willis, for that matter?
If he has this vast power to exceed the lsyatuatory imits of his power and rule by fiat with impunity, why has he not exercised it already?
C’mon, they can’t let Trump break every law.
None. Why does Trump care about that?
Correction: The President shouldn’t arbitrarily arrest members of Congress. And what if he does so anyway?
Because if it’s not a power granted to the president, then he can’t do it.
They will be immediately released from custody the second the relevant judge in that jurisdiction becomes aware of it, because such an arrest is a blatant violation of their constitutional rights, and they will subsequently have grounds to sue the federal government.
The judge personally has the keys to all of the prison cells? If it’s even a prison. What if he has them thrown in the basement of Mar-a-Lago?
And yes, I know that he’s not allowed to do that, so don’t bother mentioning it.
What law gives him the right?
What law will stop him and, much more importantly, what governmental agency will enforce that law?
Btw, the agency that is supposed to enforce that law, and so many others, doesn’t mean jack shit. The next time you try to use that “Don’t worry, it is against the law” shtick, I want to hear you say who will enforce that law, not who is supposed to, because that hasn’t worked out so well against a twice-impeached molester who has become President twice. The fact that he is not in jail right now tells me all I need to know about ineffectiveness of laws that aren’t enforced.