Ideas on Educational System Reform

I have a student who is working on a research paper dealing with educational reform. More specifically, she’s examining the pros/cons of implementing a school voucher system for a metropolitan area. Since I’m advising her in her research paper, it got me thinking about a host of issues pertaining to education reform and voucher systems.

What I would like to propose is something along the lines of a thought experiment. I’ve posted this thread here in great debates, not so much to debate the merits of a voucher system, but rather to generate discussion/ideas on how best to implement a voucher system (or some other system) that tries to achieve the following objectives:

  1. An educational system that attempts to educate all children, as a by-product of achieving a larger goal of having an educated population able to function in a modern, democratic society (whereby that type of society is sustained over time).

  2. An educational system that affords freedom of choice for parents in deciding what school their children can attend. This being, of course, a by-product of a larger ideal of individuals having the freedom to pursue their own happiness (goals).

I think most people realize that there are problems with the current U. S. public school system. And that there are numerous reasons for why this is the case. But if one were to devise an educational system that attempts to achieve the goals stated above (and both goals are equally important), how would one go about implementing such a system?

The reason I started this was I got to thinking about vouchers as a possible solution. One idea I thought might have some merit was some sort of voucher system whereby vouchers can be exchanged or bought/sold (something along the lines of “pollution credits” proposed by some groups as a means of dealing with pollution).

Or what about “weighting” the vouchers, giving vouchers to parents that live in poor school districts that are “worth” more than to those living in better school districts? There are numerous ways the value of the vouchers could be weighted (income, property values, etc.).

For example, if this were done along property values, this might have an effect whereby people with children will relocate to poorer neighborhoods/school districts to take advantage of the voucher differential. If enough people do this, one possible outcome might be an improvement in the poorer neighborhoods. If property taxes are still used to fund school districts, then the improvement in the neighborhood will help towards improving the schools in the poorer districts. This could then, in turn, impact the voucher system by making those vouchers worth less in the newly improved district.

The above are just a couple of brief examples. If one were to implement a voucher system (or some other system), what might be some possible solutions in devising a system that achieves the above goals without adversely affecting either one?

Milton Friedman has suggested offering big vouchers – equal in value to the per pupil cost of a public school education. He says this approach will allow public, private and parochial schools to compete on an equal footing. It will also allow even the poorest students to select a non-public school, since the voucher would likely pay the full cost of the non-public education.

my suggestions are based on statements by 2 famous men

There are people who can learn without help, people who can learn with help and people who can’t learn.

Machiavelli

Those who can do, those who can’t teach.

George Bernard Shaw
our educational system is designed to create jobs for people who claim to be teachers, and most good teachers quit. we need to design a curriculum based on recommended books and meaningful standard tests. if a child can meet or exceed the grade level on the tests s/he doesn’t have to go to school and the parents can cash in the vouchers and keep the money.

since i think schools are designed to psychologically condition people to be subservient to authority i doubt very many people will agree with my ideas about meaningful tests. kiddie accounting in 2th grade. every 12 year old must know basic accounting equation. full accounting course in 11th grade.

Dal Timgar

Equip every school with a state-of-the-art detention center where children are held in plce with magnets.

oh, yeah

electricity and magnetism should be covered in grammar school. kids with computers that don’t know what an electron is, ridiculous.

Dal Timgar

Dal: report to “Simpsons 101” for re-Neducation.

Increase the length of the school day and scrap holidays.

That should improve things no end.

Yo - Dally

Don’t forget…
Those who can’t teach, teach others to teach.

Damn those teachers!:frowning:

I say kill the concept of mandatory education. If people don’t want to learn, let them drop out and starve.

Pay raises for teachers. I say slash the school sports budget, and give the teachers a pay raise.

Keeping students in the room for longer does not guarentee them a better education.

For the love of nookie, kill gym and sex ed.

The libertarian in me wants to kill all public schools, and have schools be more like colleges. Geography limits this option, though.

I think about this all the time.

First, scrap the idea that all teachers should be paid the same. Sorry, but math, science, special ed, and bilingual teachers should have higher salaries. That way, we might actually be able to get enough into the schools.

Second, allow students to test out of any subjects required for graduation. If you have an eighth grader that can pass an Algebra II test, there’s no reason for that kid to sit bored through three years of high school math.

Third, lower the age a student can drop out of school with parents’ permission to fifteen years old but provide free primary and secondary education to all people regardless of age. That way, once the kid has learned how stupid dropping out is, they can come back and do it right.

Fourth, create a review board for teachers staffed primarily by students, parents, community members, and teachers. Give them the power to revoke, suspend, or modify teacher credentialing. Have them meet regularly to review complaints about teachers and administrators.

The idea of universal education is one of the underpinnings of a successful post-Industrial society, but it creates a paradox. If every child is sent to school, then you will have children who don’t want to be in school. Those kids don’t benefit from their education, because they don’t want it. Plus, they interfere with other childrens’ education. However, to say that only certain children may go to school creates opportunities for bigotry to run wild.

**phouka - First, scrap the idea that all teachers should be paid the same. Sorry, but math, science, special ed, and bilingual teachers should have higher salaries. That way, we might actually be able to get enough into the schools. **

Our district pays higher salaries to teachers that are teaching in “critical shortage” areas. Math, science, and esl teachers are receiving higher pay. In my opinion, salaries should be increased more.

**Second, allow students to test out of any subjects required for graduation. If you have an eighth grader that can pass an Algebra II test, there’s no reason for that kid to sit bored through three years of high school math. **

Our district offers this option to students. We call it “credit by exam”. A high percentage of the students that sit for these exams do not pass them. However, most of the stronger students approach high school with the more traditional attitude. Most of the students that sit for these exams are performing poorly and have realized that they are so behind, they will not be able to walk with their class at graduation.

**Third, lower the age a student can drop out of school with parents’ permission to fifteen years old but provide free primary and secondary education to all people regardless of age. That way, once the kid has learned how stupid dropping out is, they can come back and do it right. **

I have thought about this issue as well. My take is that students are so eager to do adult things. Getting a job is something they really want. I wish we could allow them to attend school for at least one class period each day. The students that have jobs could leave school and go to work. They should be required to be an employee in good standing in order to continue with this program. Our state offered a program like this (Co - Op). They discontinued the program for several reasons.

I would like to see more intership opportunities for students. I have a difficult time “selling” what I teach. If students can’t see the relevance of what is being taught, they tune out and shut down. We need more real life learning opportunities for them.

I would like to see the following:

  1. All elementary classes should be reduced in size. Classes should have no more than 15 students. Currently, the “magic” number is 22. Administrators routinely get waivers that allow them to place up to 29 students in a class.

  2. Students that fail should be “recycled” immediately. A student that fails the first six weeks of algebra needs to be sitting in a class where this information is being taught. These classes should be smaller than regular classes. This recycling should occur in any of the core subjects. Students that fail more than one class for the six weeks should experience some kind of “intervention”. Our school has formed “student support teams” comprised of teachers, deans, and the social worker. This is a good plan but their case loads are too high. Our thinking is that we want to bother the kid so much that they begin to make a better effort. This is the first year we have tried this system. Time will tell if it will work.

I think public education needs reform. I think many, if not most, of the problems could be solved if class sizes were reduced and teachers were given more time within the school day to plan and evaluate student work. Providing quality feedback on student work requires a lot of time. Teachers are expected to take this work home. I think that is ok to do from time to time. This should not be the norm. Education needs more funds but, more importantly, funds need to be used differently. Our district is full of administrators that do not add value. They show up every day and find ways to create more work for other people. This justifies their mission. They sit in a conference room somewhere with a bunch of adults and come up with new initiatives and strategies. They need to get their asses into a classroom somewhere and teach kids. Currently, they are dead weight. OK… I’m out, before this turns into a rant. :eek: