Idiot fuckin' cops

Sure, they’re more dangerous—more dangerous while they’re running. Plus, the cops themselves are more dangerous, too, while they’re pursuing. The perps are running, the cops are pursuing; the perps are running harder and faster, the cops a pursuing more determinedly and doggedly. They become the goad. In the vast majority (at least as I seem to remember from the few Cops & Robber shows I’ve seen on television in the past few years – not that that is anything but anecdotal) of the chases, the cops are pursuing a guy, not for an armed robbery, or rape, or some other violent act, but because he refused to pull over for lousy drug or traffic violation. Most of the people being pursued don’t have a history of violence, nor is the crime they’re being chased for anything particularly serious.

Hell, in a recent incident here in Toledo (May 2005), the cops put aloft their helicopter to pursue a couple teenagers who swiped a car to take a joyride – on the word of a 10 year old that that’s what had happened. Seems like a far greater expenditure of resources than the situation would call for. Plus it seems far more likely to that it would actually create a dangerous situation than would typically be the case.

I strongly disagree and can argue the same set of facts around the same circle in the opposite direction with equal logic. I believe it is possible to instill discipline and professionalism without resorting to supplying cops with a large numbers of automatic weapons, armored vehicles, pursuit helicopters, explosives, etc. What happens is that when these types of items are supplied to the cops, and admittedly done so out of genuine concern for public safety, is that in order to continue providing justification of the purchase of these items, the personnel needed to man them, and the budgets required to keep them operational and available, the cops will just find more reasons to use them. Thus, a self-feeding circle is established. One that can be particularly violent and is escalated mutually by the law enforcement agency and the criminals.

Further, giving patrol cops more power to use their judgment in a given set of circumstances, rather than responding by rote as the line grunt in a military organization is trained to do, should help a police organization as a whole accomplish their mission more effectively. Remember, that mission, as is, or was, painted on the sides of so many police cruisers, is “To Protect & Serve.” This is in direct conflict with the military’s role which is “Seek & Destroy.” I deny that transforming a public service agency into a militaristic endeavor is in the public’s best interest.

Mebbe so, but there seem to be more full-scale assaults with more dire consequences than used to be, too. Plus, I think you might be neglecting the role racism played in the unlawful actions of the previous generations of cops. I agree entirely that the more professional a police agency can be made to be, the better able they’ll be to protect society. But I don’t think militarization makes them more professional. If anything, it moves them away from the “compassionate advocate” end of the spectrum and towards the “armed opposition.”

To refresh people’s memories, let me provide a link to that incident. 120 rounds fired is nothing compared to the arsenal the cops (and public) were up against just 8 years ago.

The way I see it, a more passive police force is just as dangerous as an overly aggressive police force…and the middle ground is some phantom gray area that moves around back and forth, virtually day by day, according to the public’s/criminal’s/governmental agency’s needs and wants that places an additional burden on an undertrained and underbudgeted sheriff’s department. (Click on video titled “L.A. County Sheriff Announces New Shooting Policy.”) On the radio, I heard that Baca will try to immobolize the pursuit vehicle, back off and then call in a sharpshooter to use 1 bullet instead of 120. I guess it’s a step in the right direction, as long as the criminal stays put and waits for the sharpshooter to come and resolve “the issue”.

I’m saying that they and their Camaro intercepter put my life at unnecessary risk. And they do it for stupid, stupid shit like seeing a joint in someone’s car.

It’s not as if they’re pursuing an axe weilding murderer with someone’s kid in the trunk every time they go on one of these high-speed chases.

No, but how do they tell the joint smokers from the axe killers? When someone runs, they pretty much have to assume the worst, until such time as they know better. Unless you’re willing to let them off the hook for letting some very serious criminals get away?

And, really, it’s the criminal that runs that puts your life at risk - If they don’t run, there’s no pursuit.

No, they don’t.

Perfectly willing.

Seeing as you’re willing to let any criminal run for it, and go their merry way, that’s fine for you. I really do not want to live in a world run acording to your ideas. I want serious criminals caught. That means if someone is so desperate that they will run from the law, I want the police to assume that the runner has a reason for such desperation, and act accordingly.

Cute false dichotomy: you can catch serious criminals without going to the great lengths (helicopters, 15-car police chases, high-speed car chases, etc.) that people are objecting to. It’s not a between letting criminals go free or engaging them in a reckless persuit.

I’d like the cops to make a reasonable effort to chase, but if it starts getting out of hand I’d just as soon let him flee and then, if it’s determined that he really is a bad guy, have a detective track him down afterwards. I doubt most people who run from the cops have the intelligence and resources to effectively go into hiding.

This just happened to a good friend of mine @ the beginning of the Memorial Day weekend: Fatal crash in cemetery

That cemetery fence the fleeing driver was ‘hurtled over’ is 6’ tall. The friend who was hit head on, Michael Monte, is pretty fucked up. He can’t walk yet (cuts to his…knees, my ass) :dubious: He’s lucky he lived - and has a great story to tell. Also on the upside, I’m finally gonna get that $800 he’s owed me since last Spring.

“Use of unnecessary violence in the apprehension of the Blues Brothers has been approved.”

One - It’s not a false dichotomy. Many serious criminals are caught because they chose to flee, when the law did not otherwise know they were in the area. Their flight alerted the police to their presence.

Two - You stated flatly that you were willing to see them go. Now you come back with a more nuanced and thoughtful response. If you’d bothered with the more nuanced answer the first time, you’d have gotten a different response from me. Mind you, you’re still make some very broad assumptions. Those few criminals that have managed to elude police can, and have, managed to vanish into the woodwork. Cut back on pursuit, and you’ll see a lot more of that happening, I predict with confidence.

I said that in the context of a discussion about violent chases, helicopters, 15-car chases, etc… I assumed a reasonable person would understand that I was talking about those situations, and that I wasn’t advocating cops to just wave “buh-bye” to people who run red lights when they don’t immediately pull over, or to react to a fleeing murderer by saying “Aw shucks, he’s running away. Well, that’s it. Let’s just cancel the entire investigation. He’ll probably die of old age in a few decades anyways.”

Policemen should not be intimidating. Nor should they wear military uniforms or ski masks. Policemen are the Good Guys. They are helpfull. They aren’t the secret police of some East European country. They shouldn’t dress or behave in a manner that makes them feel as though they are.

No, they didn’t. How many of those thugs were killed by police fire? Both. How many police were killed or seriously injured?* None.*

The problem wasn’t that the police were outgunned- it was the bad firearms training that LAPD gives it’s officers- which is to fire off all your rounds very rapidly at the center of body mass. This is fine for 90% of police shotting incidents, sure, but in this case if one officer had actually carefully aimed and shot the perps in the face, the battle would have been over very quickly. Yes, I know- when you are being shot AT, it’s very hard to “aim carefully”- but there were SO many police officers there that the thugs couldn’t keep them all under fire.

Around here? Nope - I’ll assume you say what you mean, and expect the same assumption about myself in return. If you meant more details, give 'em.

Incredibly bad idea. Once he’s in the house, he’s barricaded with a bunch of weapons at his disposal and possible hostages.

What do you mean, I don’t know that will happen? Right, neither do the cops. But the odds are that is what will happen, because it has happened many times before. Far better to take him down before he barricades.

What’s appalling about it? That technique has been around for a long time and is sometimes the only way to stop someone who refuses to pull over and who is placing innocent lives at risk every minute that he’s rolling down the road with his head up his ass.

I know this is an excercise in futility, but…

Cite?

Do you have any non-anecdotal evidence that the majority of people who flee from police are going to head to their homes, arm themselves, barricade the doors, and maybe take some hostages?

Sorry, Cat. That’s total bullshit. They don’t do it for stupid shit, they do it because someone has broken the law. 99 times out of 100, the jerk is running because he’s got warrants out and the 100th time, he’s just plain stupid and thinks he can outdrive a radio.

It need not be a majority, nor even a strong minority, event, for the police to have to be expecting it, Metacom. All it need be is a reasonable possibilty, and they must act as if it were likely. The police don’t get the luxury of second chances, nor are they permitted an ‘oops.’

Way too many - especially for an agency tasked to “Protect and Serve.”

http://www.civiliansdown.com/Statistics%20Page.htm