I don’t know why people here even respond to Lobohan. His obvious hatred for Judaism is obvious - from calling it a “shitty religion” to comparing following its rituals to following the KKK.
Don’t wrestle with a pig. You get filthy and the pig likes it.
Don’t you?
In the link above, you’ll note that hotplate use is common, and one of the community’s Rabbis does it himself.
I dislike Judiasm, and Christianity, and Islam, and Scientology, and whatever Moonieism is called properly, and a bunch more.
But my dislike of the religion doesn’t mean I hate the people. Religion makes people delusional. It’s what it’s for. It’s pat, and simple answers to complex questions, and invariably, sometimes those answers won’t fit the real world. It’s destructive nature comes from the misfit and delusions.
Religious people aren’t bad, they’re victims. Like this poor woman who just wanted to placate the God she feared, and feed a hot meal to the kids she loved. It’s a fucking tragedy, and she’s not wholly at fault. Because religion attacks you with emotion, under the layers of rational though. It sets up shields of fear that protect itself. Which is why it needs to be discarded, for the good of humanity. Hopefully sooner than later.
This is sweet indeed coming from a partisan imbecile that actually can’t formulate thoughts that go against the fibrous tangle of nonsense ideology that fills the gap between his ears. I don’t hate you for your religion. I pity the extent it had in turning you into the shitty person you are.
And read for comprehension, jerkoff. I said that if you can’t criticize beliefs (like Judiasm, for instance), then you can’t criticize the KKK. You’re such a fucking cowardly liar that you have to make shit like that up, it’s sickening.
As I said, and the pig likes it.
One questions, Locrian…
If the couple wasn’t religiously misled, would they have been driving that Sunday morning? No, of course not, they would have been sleeping in, like all good atheists.
Your argument is silly, and depends on a prior belief that observing the sabbath is stupid, and if anything bad happens, it’s because you did this stupid thing.
This would be the cowardly part I was talking about. Just ignore that you lied about me equating Judaism with the KKK. I called them both beliefs, not said they were morally equal.
Terr, can’t we just be friends? C’mon over, I’ll cook you a low-carb bacon cheeseburger. Or I’ll turn on the burner and let you cook it. <3
Driving isn’t the same as leaving a hotplate on. Seriously. Think about it.
You know what, if it’s actually all that common for people to leave hot plates on over night, and we’ve never heard of it before, then it’s not really all that freaking dangerous. Every winter I hear about a couple of fires caused by malfunctioning space heaters – devices designed to run unattended. (well, the nice ones are, maybe the cheap ones aren’t and that’s the problem.) What that suggests is that this was just bad luck. Well, bad luck and a lack of smoke detectors. If you want to blame something, blame that.
Well, now , let’s see. I see a lot of “there’s no rule that requires her to leave an unattended hot plate on overnight” and some “she didn’t understand/heed the risks” along with “she didn’t understand the rule properly”.
The quote about the “majority of those don’t leave unattended hotplates running in smoke-detector free homes.” was in reference to the general population of adherents not her specific community which is much smaller than all Sabbath-observing Jews.
The closest you get to “outlier” or “uncommon” is “I’m pretty sure their rabbi would have told them to get a crock pot and install smoke detectors.” Even if the rabbi would have said that, that still doesn’t mean Telemark was saying the woman was an outlier - it was in the context of blaming the rabbi for failing to instruct the community on the dangers of hot plates and failing to set up funds to purchase crockpots… Seems to me you don’t need to instruct the community because an outlier or three made a bad decision - you instruct the community because you believe a substantial number of people are making that bad decision.
Let’s see. Both are behaviors with some amount of risk that some people take for convenience in service of various goals, be those goals religiously motivated or otherwise.
What is the big difference? Oh I know! One is a risk that you take for your goals and that is familiar to you and the other is something that a group of others do!
I know you believe, on the basis of no information whatsoever, that the risk of a fatality from using a hot plate over night is greater on a per hour use. Such is not obviously true. If one does not count this event I cannot find a single report of a death associated with hot plates.
But driving and hotplates are too much apples and oranges for you then please respond to my personal stockpot example.
The driving example was posted by someone else. I was saying it wasn’t comparable in another post. And no, the sabbath is stupid because it causes people to forgo common sense and burn the house down. (in this case)
Why hasn’t anyone else asked about the rest of the people in this house? Surely they knew about the dangers of leaving it on too. Why not turn it off for her? I believe the same fear of pissing of the bearded one is in play.
So, driving then.
First of all it’s perfectly rational to trade safety for convenience using a cost benefit analysis.
The beliefs behind Catholic mass are completely braindead. I have been to a few and the stupid is strong.
The sermons are infantile, the synchronized arm waiving and automaton-like mumbling is creepy, the bread thing is disgusting and the donation basket is the icing on the cake.
Driving to get from point A to point B isn’t like that. It’s a rational mode of transportation, regardless of the motive.
The analogy you are looking for is driving blindfolded because of voodoo beliefs.
If anyone’s truly worried about devout Jews going up in flames, there are Shabbat hot plates which, I presume, are made to be left on all day safely. (Implied warranty and all that.)
You know it pains me, but I must agree with you here. However, I think these posts are the most enlightening (my bold):
Ah, yes. Our dirty, smelly, disease ridden ancestors. Gee, where have we heard that before? Not very creative for an alleged modern thinker. I suppose we should consider it progress that he only refers to modern day Jews as douche-bags, pussies, connivers, and retards.
Of course not! I’m sure there’s a perfectly rational explanation for the relevance of these personal depictions of people. Just like there was a good reason to post the “Burn” jpg. He’s only kidding! Have some pork, Jews!* Ha Ha Ha! Get it?
(*Why do they always think that pork = kryptonite?)
You keep posting this. What other people??? The father/husband was away, and the mother/wife and children were upstairs. Sleeping. Even if they were awake, you were expecting young children and teens (of any religious persuasion or no religious persuasion) to think about something like that?
Please don’t call me an anti-Semite. It’s dishonest, and is nothing more than an attempt on your part to get around having to argue worth a shit.
I don’t hate religious people, they are the victims of their religions, systems of organized brainwashing that propagate through history, causing untold hatred, strife and chaos, for nothing but the comforting delusion of life after death.
I hate that modern men and women are beholden to stinking primitives, the profoundly ignorant bronze age shitbeards who made up this nonsense. And that goes for the iron age shitbeards who made up Christianity and Islam as well. Or the stone-age shitbeards who first looked into a thundering sky and said, “Hey, I bet that means someone up there is pissed off at me.”
Thousands of years ago people were brutish, and profoundly ignorant. If you wanted advice on medical treatment, or architecture, you certainly wouldn’t go to some smelly ignoramus from the ass-end of antiquity. You shouldn’t go to that guy for moral advice on how to live your life, either. He simply doesn’t have enough information to generate advice that’s relevant to you, as a modern person.
So don’t call me a racist you piece of shit. I don’t hate any race. I hate shitty ignorant organizations that do nothing but generate ignorance and delusion.
I happen to be of mixed race myself, and I grew up in the most multi-cultural state in the union. So please, stuff it up your wazoo. Thank you. <3
No, there’s nothing about observing the Sabbath that causes people to lose common sense. If this woman thought it was okay to leave a hot plate on over the Sabbath she would have been just as comfortable doing it to make stock overnight. Judaism explicitly forbids increasing the risk of death by Sabbath observance.
Maybe she was tragically wrong about the safety of hot plates, or maybe it was a tragic failure of that hot plate. In neither case is it the fault of “Sabbath” any more than the auto accident is the fault of “church”.
Fwiw, Jews don’t spend their energy fearing that they might be pissing off God. They do spend energy trying to please God. I’m sure you don’t care, but it’s a very different psychology.
I can’t believe I am posting here, supporting the rules of orthodox Judaism. I think those rules are ridiculous. I reject those rules in my everyday life. But they aren’t half as ridiculous as the arguments I am disputing here. You guys have no idea what the rules say, and are making up strawmen to pilory. All because (some of) you have a deep irrational hatred either for Judaism or for religion in general.
Are people scripted à la telemarketing drones as part of their indoctrination into religious cults?
Probably some are.
If you are suggesting I am part of a religious cult, you are mistaken. I am an agnostic, leaning atheist, who was raised as a Reform Jew. I have an interest in Orthodox Judaism, and have enough Orthodox friends to have discussed it a lot with them. Unlike a lot of atheists, I see that my religious friends seem to get a lot of value out of their religion. The rules of Orthodox Judaism are ridiculous, but they help to cement close, supportive communities that people really want to be a part of. And they don’t seem to prevent people from earning a living, rearing children, or living a long and happy life.
I agree it creates close knit communities. That and a sense of identity are probably why the Orthodox stick to such an obviously flawed world view. In my opinion, of course.
Some stick to the community and not even the world view. I’ve known two practicing Orthodox Jews who told me they don’t believe in God. They don’t say that publicly in their communities, of course, but those communities don’t demand a statement of faith beyond muttering Hebrew prayers along with the congregation. Both told me that they nonetheless keep the Law, keep kosher, follow the Sabbath restrictions, because that is the price of admission to the community they want to remain a part of.