Anyone know – should abortion be outlawed somehow, someway (!) by the Supreme Court in the next four years or so – if pro-choice groups are making preparations to allow women access to said service “underground?” Not looking for specific info, just seems like might be a good idea to get started if not. =D
Cheers!
BA
I don’t think SCOTUS can outlaw abortion. Just remove it as being a protected right. I think it’s up to the states then.
True. Separation of Powers dictates that courts do not have any legislative authority, except for the ability to declare a law unconstitutional. The most that SCOTUS can do is decide that abortion should not have any special protections. At this point it would become an issue for the states or Congress.
Okey doke, but will I still be able to get an abortion in four years, is the thrust of my OP. =D
Cheers!
BA
It depends on whether any given state makes abortion illegal. Right now citizens of the states are not given the opportunity to decide whether it should be legal in their state; I find it hard to believe that every state would feel the procedure needs to be outlawed.
So, if the Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade, it will be up to the states to decide whether or not to allow said procedure? =D
Cheers!
BA
But if the Supreme Court overturns Roe than all the pre-Roe laws banning abortion that are still on the books in many states would go into effect. And some states have passed laws banning abortion post-Roe for symbolic reasons even though they are unconstituional; they’d go into effect too.
…only outlaws will get abortions.
Guess if it went to the states, lots of women would cross state lines to get one.
Would that be illegal?
Well, no, not if it is legal in the state they cross the line into. =D
Cheers!
BA
It may wind up being as it was before Roe v. Wade: abortions in Mexican border towns, certain Caribbean countries, Sweden, Japan, etc. Those were the common destinations back then; now the countries allowing abortion have multiplied.
As back then, there would be local ‘back alley’ abortionists, the old DIY coat-hanger method and midwives with knowledge of the procedure. The morning-after pill would be sold underground.
These less-than-safe or expensive methods are part of the reason why Roe v. Wade passed.
Is there any way abortion could be made a federal crime? What exactly determines federal jurisdiction?
Well-to-do women may be able to jet off to Mexico or Sweden for an abortion, but for many poor women, getting transportation to the nearest city is difficult, especially in rural areas where public transportation is non-existant.
I think this is the most likely scenario. The “morning after pill” would be a hotly traded comodity on the black market.
I’m sure that there’d be some physicians who would still perform abortions, but disguise the procedure as something else on paper. There are always ways around the rules.
It makes me think of the abortifcatients sold in the 1800’s, advertised as “ladies’ pills.” The ads would say something along the lines of, “Pregnant women should not take three of these pills twice a day or immediate abortion will result.”
Then, of course, some women would resort to the old-fashioned herbal remedies. A casual search via Yahoo! gave me dozens of sites with herbal aborition recipes. There are also a few books on the subject out there. While these methods may not be safe, many women would probably chose to try them rather than attempting a scary foray into the underground. I’m sure many will be poisoned attempting it.
Or, more simply, just here in Canada. Heck, we’re already covering your asses on prescription drugs and flu vaccines.
Well, murder (arguably the charge that would apply to abortion if it were made illegal) isn’t a Federal crime, and I don’t think there was ever a serious attempt to make it such. Federal crimes are listed in Title 18, Part 1 of the U.S. Code. As far as I know, amending the US Code requires an act of Congress. For them to grab a controversial issue like abortion away from the states would cause considerable discontent.
Dilation and curettage can be performed for reasons that have nothing to do with pregnacy. The morning-after is not a form of abortion. Real abortion pills like RU-486 would become very popular on the blackmarket.
My advice: live in a blue state.
From the very U.S. Code you linked to: Chapter 51: Homicide.
Oops, how silly of me to just look under “M”.
How embarassing.
“Blue” states that have never repealed restrictive abortion laws ruled unconstitutional by Roe v. Wade: California, Delaware, District of Columbia, Massachusetts, Michigan, New Hampshire, Vermont, Wisconsin.
“Blue” states that have laws banning most post-viability abortions: California, Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Illinois, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Washington, Wisconsin.
If Bush succeeds on stacking SCOTUS to overturn Roe, then some states will ban it and some states won’t and some states will have it legal with exceptions. A few of the more backwards states will have outright, no exceptions band but my guess is that most states would still allow rape/incest/life of the mother exceptions (which may lead to false claims of rape or incest in order to obtain an abortion and no way to tell true claims from false).
I would imagine that women would just travel to states where it’s legal or buy black market RU-486.
Hopefully it would open the door for easier access to emergency contraception (which is NOT an abortion pill).
I don’t think overturning R vs W would have much of a net effect on stopping abortions (and who are we going to punish? Are we going to punish the women or just the doctors? What about women who self-abort? How do you prove it? Are we going to investugate every miscarriage?). Women who really need them will still find it relatively easy to obtain them.
I would hope that the really hardcore states would get bankrupted by their sudden inability to support all the unwanted babies being raised on the public dime.
Me: Male, adult since before Roe v Wade, feminist before the word existed.
Where I was, abortion was a criminal offense punishable by 5-7 years in state prison. Anyone “helping to procure” an abortion was subject to the same punishment.
To say that this was underground would be an understatement. I never knew the Dr.'s involved (yes, real, live Dr.'s were involved - they weren’t Catholic, but they were licensed physicians). I knew people who knew people, eventually leading to an appointment - I knew of three layers of intermediates above - each presumably had another layer for security reasons. I got women (who passed my “sniff test” - somewhere, I’m sure the FBI has a file on me; paranoia was a damned good idea at that time and place) on the trail, and never inquired as to what happened upstream. Yes, if nailed, I could expect 5-7 years, as could all the upsteam folks. We put it on the line. At that time D&C training was part of standard medical education - since then, I understand that many schools refuse to train anybody in the procedure - fear of the Fundies (Bush II and Ashcroft have not helped, folks) have caused them to turn out MD’s who don’t know how to empty a uterus - whatever your position on abortion, this is not a GOOD THING - some advanced infections are not amenable to just antibiotics - the accumulated septic tissue must be physically removed (my understanding - I have a sister who had endometriosis, and got to know more than most male non-MD’s about the plumbing).
It is the fact that D&C training is largely lacking in so many current MD’s that has caused the development of alternative methods - there was a home-made vacumm system several years ago, and then RU486 (hint: say it out load, each letter separately, then ‘eighty-six’ (this assumes you know what “86” means)).
Fundies and devout RCC’ers may now go apoplectic…
Bottom line: Roe v Wade WILL be overturned - the 2004 election (the “War President” now has a “Mandate” to push his economic, military, social, and religious views on the US - the 5-4 SCOTUS decisions affirming RvW will, within 3 years, become at least 5-4 to OVERTURN RvW.
Good luck, kids - 5-7 ain’t fun. Choose your next residence carefully - CA and NY will probably not interfere - the Bible Belt states most certainly will. If you are a girl or young woman - get out of there if you want any choices.
They say Canada’s nice - if you feel a chill (draft, anyone?) a change of scenery just might do wonders.
Best wishes.