If Bush Were to Suspend the Constitution, What Would WE Do?

Great Debates
1

Okay, to set the stage, I’m going to take a highly improbable scenerio for how this comes about in order to try and keep this thread from getting hijacked into unimportant areas. In June of 2008, a car explodes near where Bush is speaking. The owner of the car (who is killed in the explosion) is a muslim. Bush immediately announces that it’s obviously the sign of a large Al Qaeda operation in the US and suspends the Constitution in order to take what he deems are the necessary measures to stop them, and he promises that once all the baddies have been rounded up, he’ll restore the Constitution, we’ll have our election, and go on with our lives. Shortly after he suspends the Constitution, it comes out that the owner of the car was merely suicidal, and had no idea that Bush was in the area when he blew himself up. Bush disputes this and refuses to restore the Constitution.

With that out of the way (and clearly establishing that there is no legitimate reason for his actions), I have to ask the following questions:

1.) Assuming that the internet is still available to us, would we be allowed by the Reader to announce our intention to protest Bush’s actions in any manner? (Naturally, even saying that we were planning a peaceful protest would get us on a Federal watchlist.)

2.) Either by email or posts to this board, if we agree to do peaceful protests, what methods would most likely be effective in forcing Bush out?

3.) If things turned violent (say US forces begin opening fire on peaceful protests and underground militia groups decide to engage in guerilla warfare against the government) would we be allowed, by the Reader, to post death announcements of those Dopers who’d been killed fighting against the government?

4.) Should the Dopers with weapons/military experience announce on the boards that they’ll be giving “self-defense” training lessons (nudge, nudge, wink, wink)?

5.) Could we, in such a situation, figure out an “in code” which would clue us Dopers in that our members were planning on opposing Bush (either peacefully or violently) without tripping alerts in whatever government computer systems that would no doubt be monitoring the boards?

6.) How would we out those among us, who were stooges for the government, without alerting TPTB we were on to them?

7.) If the Reader enacted a policy that all threads relating to the matter were to be deleted, could we work out a way to post important information without it getting deleted?

8.) Could we count on the mods to defy the Reader and, at the very least, pass on email addresses of those Dopers who keep theirs hidden to everyone in order to better facilitate off-board communication related to the resistance?

9.) Which one of us would insist on adopting The Mole’s persona from South Park: Bigger, Longer, and Uncut?

2

Don’t worry, we’ll be saved by the giant dinosaurs from outer space.

3

I’m probably about as virulently anti-Bush as anyone on this board, but even I drop short of declaring Bush Palpatine. He’s just not that smart. And anyway, there’s have to be a whole slew of preparations done beforehand and a lot of people clued in before such a feat could be attempted. Nope, I don’t see it happening under any circumstances.

4

Jeez…can this board please move into the 21st century and provide an edit post feature? Previous post corrected below.

I’m probably about as virulently anti-Bush as anyone on this board, but even I stop short of declaring Bush Palpatine. He’s just not that smart. And anyway, there’d have to be a whole slew of preparations done beforehand and a lot of people clued in before such a feat could be attempted. Nope, I don’t see it happening under any circumstances.

5

Just the start of two quotations, by way of answer:

“When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary…”

“You cannot enslave a free man…”

6

I will support protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, Foreign, and Domestic.

Tris

7

Constitution of the United States? I prefer to think the situation described in the OP opens up to us a wider range of choices after the revolution. We might decide on a better constitution.

8

I think that anybody, pro or anti, who publicly announces his views on a message board that archives its Threads, is doing both his cause & himself a disservice.

9

Personally, if I was going to be planning an insurrection, I’d probably use an anonymous board, rather than one that links my account to my identity directly, like this one. Frankly, if the government turned on us, I can’t think of a worse way to organize resistance than to use this board. We are mostly anonymous to each other, so organization is difficult, our messages are totally public, and our identities are transparent to the government, so they can discover our plans and pick us up with little effort.

10

I think that any insurrectionists would have a really hard time gathering enough support to make their efforts meaningful. Frankly, as long as life continued to be much as it is, I don’t think most Americans would care. Those who did would probably be seen as slightly-dangerous whackos.

It would depend on how it was done: if there was a “patriotic” reason behind it and life didn’t alter demonstrably, most people probably wouldn’t care much one way or the other, and many would probably *support *it. “We need to keep America safe from terrorists!”

Protests would do* shit* to help the situation. This administration is used to ignoring protests, even ones on a massive scale. Protestors would just be shuffled over to their “Free Speech Zones” and pointedly ignored. Go ahead and sit down in your non-violent resistance-- the majority of people would just step around you like a homeless person in the street.

A violent resistance would simply cement the neccessity for suspending the Constitution in the minds of its supporters. The Founding Fathers wouldn’t have gotten anywhere with their acts of “terrorism” if they didn’t have an army to back them up. And I think you’d have a hell of a problem forming an army out of people who are worried about missing their dentist’s appointments or being late for Jimmy’s soccer practice.

11

There wouldn’t be any supporters.

That’s the problem with these kinds of scenarios - they are not even remotely possible. No one would support Bush if he did this - no one. If Bush gave a speech announcing it, Republicans would impeach him immediately. If Bush ordered the military to arrest Congress for doing so, they would refuse to obey.

I know it is fashionable for some of the more idiotic of the Usual Suspects to pretend that all Bush-supporters are mindless drones, but that is mere invective.

The chances of this happening are indistinguishable from zero.

Regards,
Shodan

12

I don’t share your confidence, and I have a feeling that if any President attempted to do something like this (be they Republican, Democrat, Whig, or what have you) they’d have people who were more than willing to support them. Whether those people would be influential enough to allow the President to continue to operate for even a short period of time is another matter.

13

If the Straight Dope was smart it wouldn’t do a damn thing. This isn’t a good medium for establishing a revolution.

Anyway, here is how this scenario would actually play out:

-Immediately upon this declaration the Vice President meets with the Cabinet. In a unanimous vote they decide to transmit a letter to President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House declaring the President unfit to discharge his duties.

Bush then has the Constitutional right to transmit a letter saying exactly the opposite.

After which time the Vice President and Cabinet would again transmit a letter saying the exact same thing to the President pro tempore and the Speaker of the House. At which point both Houses of Congress are called into emergency session and with almost unanimous votes in both Houses it is affirmed that the President is no longer fit to perform his duties and the Vice President becomes acting President.

As Acting President he declares the insane person within the White House to be a personal threat to him and demands the United State Secret Service arrest him. At this point he is then probably placed under guard and house arrest by either the Secret Service, the U.S. Capitol Police, or the U.S. military. During this time impeachment proceedings will be well under way to make his removal permanent.

14

Ya got a better one?

15

Well, no, it wouldn’t happen on just a random day. It would take a massive upheval-- a huge terrorist attack even larger than Sept. 11th-- to make it fly with the people. When people are scared, logic and reason go right out the window.

16

It will not happen because it is unneccesary. As Gonzomax has pointed out, with incombents being re-elected 98 percent of the time, we, the people, are irrelevant. TPTB have pretty much got us where they want us.

17

Yeah, for one don’t use the internet. Or cell phones.

If you insist, if you’re trying to organize via virtual means you’ll have to find public access internet, if it’s still around, and use email addresses and message boards that don’t require you to put in any personal info that is traceable back to you (like any credit card information.)

Ultimately you’re a lot better off doing things amongst people you know and trust personally. Effective dictatorships attempt to seed the ranks of revolutionaries with spies and double agents, and a public forum like this would make that all too easy.

18

Cloak it in enough jingoistic/fear-mongering/anti-terrorism language, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see some folks support it. Just look at the folks who keep insisting “9/11 changed everything” for a start.

19

Yes, putting leaflets on telephone poles would be more effective. The revolutionary has a chance to remain anonymous and the leaflets can’t be automatically searched or deleted from a central location. Those two factors alone make it superior to this board, which really isn’t saying much.

20

Ddin’t we go through this at the end of the Clinton Administration? The overwhelming paranoia of the Other Side? In any case, Bush can’t suspend the Constitution…he hasn’t got the authority. Nor, as other people have mentioned, has he got the backing of any group with the authority. On top of all that, the Federal Government doesn’t control elections, so he has zero chance of suspending them “in the interim.” If Bush tried such a suicidal action, we wouldn’t have to do anything. The system would take care of things just fine on its own.