the title says it in itself - I was thinking, If Christ wasnt crucified like he was over 2000 years ago, would Christianity be such a powerful religion?
well, by christ i meant jesus, but you get the drift
If Jesus hadn’t resurrected (or wasn’t believed to have resurrected, if you want to look at it that way), the key underpinning of Christianity would not exist, and it’s hard to imagine that the religion itself would exist. Obviously in order to resurrect, one must first die. Crucifixion in and of itself was not necessary, but the suffering that Jesus endured in being whipped and crucified is of some significance.
That’s like asking “If Buddha didn’t exist, would Buddhism be a religion?”
The crucifixion and resurrection of Christ are the key components to Christianity, in all of its forms. Sorry, but your question is nonsensical.
No it isn’t. That’s like saying “The Kennedy assassination was such a key moment in JFK’s life that it’s nonsensical to ask what might have happened if he hadn’t been assassinated.” From a non-theistic standpoint, Jesus was just a man who started a religious movement, and managed to get himself executed for it in the process. Maybe, if history had gone differently, Jesus might not been sentenced to die; or he might have decided to flee to escape execution, or what have you. It’s not so nonsensical to wonder how the world might have turned out after that.
Ah, but it is nonsensical. The OP asked about Christianity, not how the world would be if Christ never died on the cross. there is a big difference there. Christianity presupposes the Crucifixion and Resurrection. Anything else, and we aren’t talking Christianity.
As a “sort of Fundementalist” Christian, my answer would be that had Jesus not been crucified (well, some other form of execution would probably have sufficed) and subsequently risen from the dead, he would have been just another rabbi. Well, perhaps a little more, maybe a prophet, but not the Messiah. Since I believe that the Crucifixtion was a fulfillment of several important prophesies about the Messiah, a Jesus that was never crucified and died a natural death would not have fulfilled the prophesies, ergo, such a Jesus would not have been the Messiah.
Even if not written from the standpoint of a believer, had Jesus not been crucified, he would not have had the same influence. The Resurection is often argued to be the most compelling arguement for his divinity. Several of the parables and other teachings of Jesus make clear references to the fact that he would be put to death (the more secular might argue they were inserted later, but even if you do not believe he could see the future, this could arguably have been a “self fulfilling prophesy,” given how many people he managed to offend). The arguement that Jesus was the Messiah also gave Christians an apocalyptic urgency towards spreading their message; many believed the end of the world was just around the corner There are many doctrines about salvation that are intertwined with the Crucifixtion, too. You can’t really pry the Crucifixtion out of either contemporary orthodox Christian teachings, the Pauline letters, or the early post-cannonical writings and still have the same theology. A Christianity without a Crucifixtion would not be recognizable as Christianity - and probably would not have been as compelling a system of beliefs.
Had the romans opted for defenestration, the story could have remained substantially the same, but with holy windows rather than crosses.
Woody, the intent of your question is unclear. Phrased as it is, it could be correctly answered with a no, a yes, or a maybe, depending upon what assumptions we make – and there is no way to address it without making some assumptions.
If you mean had he not been crucified AND resurrected, then NO, Christianity as we know it would not exist. One could argue that there might yet be some religion based upon Jesus, but 1) that’s pretty doubtful, as he wouldn’t have been the first nor the last preacher/prophet of some influence who didn’t get a religion named after him, and 2) even if there were such a religion, it wouldn’t have been called Christianity because he wouldn’t have been the Christ/Messiah.
If you mean had he not been specifically crucified, yet he was still executed (hanged, stoned, beheaded, whatever*) and resurrected, then YES, because essentially it’s the same thing.
If you mean had he not been executed, but died a natural death yet still resurrected, then MAYBE – that scenario doesn’t fulfill the prophecies, but it’s pretty hard to ignore someone dying and then coming back to life.
Kindly clarify your question.
*It was really hard not to put defenestrated in there. Curse you, Squink.
Couldn’t they just have found other prophecies that would have fit?
You might want to read Nikos Kazantzakis’s The last Temptation of Christ as a study of whether Christ had to die (I confess, I’ve only seen the movie; I’ll pull the book off the shelf in a little bit. :rolleyes: )
I have to ask the OP, what would the point of Christianity be if Christ wasn’t crucified? Admittedly, what faith I have doesn’t hinge on the accuracy of the facts surrounding Christ’s life, but I don’t know how Christianity could have any meaning without the death and resurrection.
In the Christian faith, the belief is that Jesus was born specifically to die for the sins of all Man. Had Pilate granted reprieve, it would have messed up JC “taking one for the team”.
However, while I agree that the Resurrection is the keystone of the faith, had the crucifixtion not happened it may never have taken off, if you will. It could be argued that Resurrection could happen even after natural death.
Of course, it wasn’t my will that was followed, so take it with the ole grain of salt or three.
What, nothing the man taught during his life had any value, then?
So, if it was just “Jesus-ism,” a religion-philosophy founded by a desert Rabbi who died of cancer in 79 A.D., it’d have no appeal?
I’m not sure that’s what cornflakes was contending. But without the crucifixion/resurrection, Jesus would not have been the Christ, and the appeal would certainly have been significantly different. And very likely significantly less.
Not that this is particularly relevent to the OP but I find it ironic how few people make the connection between the martyrdom spirit of the middle east culture. We find some 2000 odd years ago Jesus martyring himself for a cause and even today we have people there blowing themselves up for a cause
(yes I know the end result is differnt but the point of martyrdom for a cause, however strong or weak, is the same.)
Sorry for the retardly phrased question - I should have asked it more clearer. Thanks Gary T
Thats kinda what i was getting at