sorry, Zoroastrianism
I am particularly a fan of the Dionysian cult- that would have been popular in the absence of Christianity
if the Greeks had won Syracuse, and Alexandrian Egypt become the centre of the world-
yeah, and Zorastrianism could have spread into Russia and Northern Europe-
why not?
The mysterious Druid culture could have invaded America-
which now would be called Armorica-
and the Native American religions might even have been respected by the Gauls
and amplified into worldwide cults and philosophies.
Could have been interesting.
sorry, Zoroastrianism
Well, sure- Zoroastrianism would have been a contender, and as Bosda said, there was Mitranism (altho that had some roots in Christianity). However, as pointed out- no Christ, no Mohammed.
But- Islam & Christianity make one thing clear- the idea of a “one true god & faith” was an idea whose time had come. I guess some faith- could even have some other sort of Jewish offshoot- would have risen to the top & began ruthlessly driving the others out.
Jesus was likely the single most pivotable man in recorded history. However, some one would have taken his place.
The world would be FAR different from now, though, I agree.
Just sticking with the Bible (for the sake of argument), quite a lot of things happened before JC appeared on the scene…
Historically speaking, now, it’s my understanding that Christianity was quite touch-and-go in its infancy. BTW, I thought that there was some interesting reading on some related topics in What If? 2.
Hi, robby. Yes, that’s very true. But Jesus was always in God’s plan of redemption from the beginning of creation. If there was no Christianity, that means there was no Jesus. If there was no Jesus, there was no God’s plan. If there was no God’s plan, there was no creation. That’s where my comment was coming from.
Thanks for the link about the book. I have not read it (nor the first one).
I’m not much of a theologian, but would redemption via Jesus have been necessary if Adam and Eve had just left the forbidden fruit alone? No original sin, then!
Or did God know in advance that Adam and Eve would in fact sin? In other words, were they set up?! :eek:
Seriously, though, how do free will and “God’s plan of redemption from the beginning” not contradict each other?
You’re quite welcome. There’s a chapter in there, BTW, in which the result of Jesus NOT being crucified by Pontius Pilate is explored. I thought it was handled well.
I say we’d all be Jewish. Maybe.
But um, for thousands of years, Christianity did not exist. So your “truth” is not.
Did Mithraism extend some concept of salvation to everyone, or just to a certain group of people? I remember reading or hearing somewhere that the universal notion of salvation peculiar to Christianity was one of the big reasons why it took off and other religious movements of the time didn’t.
I would agree that Islam would be dominant. However, it would probably be a strain that is not very widespread nowadays.
I’d guess that, given all of that extra land, there would, somewhere, be a Luther-esque Muslim, kicking off a reformation. Also, Jews living in Muslim lands, at least during the Uthmann and Abyssid dynasties, lived pretty well. I’d wager that, if there were no Christianity, there is less Anti-Semitism. Less Anti-Semitism, no Holocaust. No Holocaust, no Israel. No Israel, no scapegoat for Arab states. No scapegoat, more moderation and less violence.
Of course, this is a massive slippery slope here. I just pulled this out of thin air.
Without Christianity, everything is not necessarily wonderful, however -
when the Gaulish Druid civilisation finally contacted the Aztecs in 1500 the human sacrifice cult of the Aztecs was absorbed imto the celtic sacrificial practice of the Wicker Man…
Having devastated North and South Armorica in a search for victims, the new synthetic blood and flame religion turned to Muslim Africa and Southern Eurasia for fresh lands to conquer…
Finally the intellectual Zoroastrian Russians developed the atomic bomb and ended the First world war in 1750…
Poppycock and Balderdash. Don’t forget that a massive chunk of “western Civilization” is from the Greek and Roman culture, which both predate Christianity. There would still be Western Civilization, it’s dominance of the world would just depend on whether or not it still remembered its Aristotelian roots (as we did in the Renaissance) or if it forgot them completely in a permanent dark age.
Absolutely.
If the Christians had not destroyed the Alexandrian Library, some fifth century James Watt would have built upon Hero’s steam turbine technology, and the Industrial Revolution could have been complete by the year 1000
The first man on the moon could have been in 1066
and the first colony on Epsilon Eridani B could have been celebrating it’s bicentennial in 2003
giving thanks to Serapis and Dionysos…
Your post reminded me, I had read recently that Jesus was only the latest of several men in that time and place who called themselves messiahs, were purported to have performed miracles, and come back from the dead. Sorry, I have no cite, don’t remember where I read it.
In that context, it seems possible that if it weren’t Jesus of Nazareth, it might have been some other guy starting basically the same Christ cult.
I think the idea that the industrial revolution was simply the result of linear step by step progress is flawed. A certain level of technology doesn’t mean an industrial revolution, the printing press doesn’t neccesarily mean intellectual freedom. In 1500 China was more advanced technologically than Europe. Chinese fleets had visited Africa and Indonesia. But there was no embryonic industrial and intellectual revolution brewing in China. Power was still centralized, the printing press was a tool of government control, the treasure fleets were destroyed. Technological progress isn’t a one way ratchet destined to culminate in 21st century liberal democracy.
Naturally, without the rise of Individualism in Western thought, the technology isn’t enough on it’s own; this prevented China from becoming the dominant power that Europe (and through them, the U.S.) became.
Ah, yes, individualism- rebels against theological ossification like Luther, Henry VIII, Galileo, Darwin… without such as these the West would have been condemned to a mediocre medieval stasis…
could reason have developed in any other historical scenario?
Well, yes. It developed despite Christianity, not because of it.
Ultrafilter= Mithraism was a secret faith, so we aren’t really sure. However, it did seem to have the concept of “being washed free of all your sins” through the blood of the Bull. However, it was for men only.
Soup- I think that without Jesus & Christianity, there wouldn’t have been a Muslem faith. Not as we know it, anyway.
Eburacum. The Christains didn’t destroy the Libary. Or, rather, they did, but only once of the several times it was destroyed. The final destruction, and the one that was only for religious reasons was by the Muslims. By the time Xianity got big and intolerant, they had no control of that area.
Revtim- right. There were several such “cults”. Christianity had two things going for it- a pretty good message- and the greatest hucktser the world has even seen- Saul/Paul of Tarsis. Argueably, Saul (or someone like him) could have done the same for several “Messiahs”.
Kim Stanley Robinson’s novel The Years of Rice and Salt starts from the premise that the Black Death wiped out 99% of Christian Europe. Effectively removing it from influencing the course of civilization from then on. So what does happen? The Islamic and Chinese/Buddhist worlds come to dominate the globe. Japanese sailors discover America across the Pacific. Muslims in Central Asia experiment and work out the laws of physics, instead of Newton. Etc. The novel goes ahead well into the future. I should go back and finish reading it. Robinson has carried out the fullest extrapolation of this question. Although it wasn’t “What if Christianity had never existed?”, but “What if Christianity were taken out before it could start conquering the rest of the world?”