I think even most Christians would agree the real beginnings of Christianity in Europe can be traced back to the Roman emperor Constantine embracing it in the 4th Century A.D., and it becoming the state religion not long after that. But one thing has perplexed me almost as long as I’ve known this fact: what religion would Europe probably be if it were not for Christianity? For some reason, I assume it’d either be Greco-Roman paganism or Islam. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this matter?
In this theoretical world, did Christianity never happen, did Constantine not legalize it, or did Theodosius not make it the official religion of the Empire?
I am assuming (just theoretically, understand) Jesus never existed, Christianity never happened, etc. (Judaism still exists in my theoretical world, of course, as do all other non-Christian religions.)
I suppose they would be Muslim then if Christianity never happened…and assuming Islam did of course. I don’t really see anything else standing up to Islam in Europe if Christianity wasn’t already fully embedded. They have a similar powerful message, and without Christianity I doubt Europe would have kept the Moores out in any case so Islam would have spread everywhere. Just my opinion, and given before I’ve had any coffee so take it with a grain of salt.
-XT
Mithraism?
Ok, but then Christianity’s lack of existance is going to change Islam, if Islam even exists at all. Muhammed was pretty heavily influenced by Christianity.
There was somebody, and I forget who it was, who said that, if it wasn’t for Christianity becoming the religion of the Empire, Judaism very well might have. I don’t know if that’s true, but there were a lot of converts to Judaism in the early empire, and even more Noachide “god-fearers” (monotheists who believed in the Jewish God and followed Jewish ethical rules without being full converts.)
Probably not Mithraism. It was a pretty exclusive religion (Restricted to men, and also, I think, largely restricted to the military), and it never actively sought out converts.
Religions evolve.
And a militaristic faith would have a better chance of repelling armed incursions.
I think that something partly similar to Christianity could well have developed without the existence of Jesus. After all, Christianity is in many ways a mixture of Greek philosophy (see Augustine’s Platonic metaphysics and Thomas Aquinas’ Aristotelian metaphysics), Orphic mysticism (the model of a sun-hero dying and resurrecting) and Jewish sacred history.
Perhaps Stoic philosophy, or Neo-Platonism, would have evolved into a more stable belief system, and become endorsed by the Roman empire.
If not for Christianity or something like it, I would think it would be Islam. Those were the two fierce warrior religions on the continent, and didn’t it come close at times? (To Islam conquests of Christian states, that is.) Hinduism is the other big religion and while Hinduism can be just as fierce and barbaric at times India was a farming country predominantly, and Indians just weren’t warriors on the same scale.
Sure, religions evolve. But I don’t see anything about Mithraism at the beginning of the 4th century that suggests it would evolve into a proslytizing universalist religion. I’m willing to be proved wrong, though. What’s your argument?
Rome was the economic center of the ancient world. And religions that are heavily based in powerful economic centers spread, Baby! Religion moves along trade routes. Armies also move along trade routes, & soldiers travel.
That militaristic faith spread throughout the Empire, & died out chiefly because of Constantine’s conversion.
BTW–it seems that Xianity & Mithraism borrowed quite a bit from one another’s philosophy.
Limited, also, to men of means. To be initiated, one had to sacrifice a bull and bathe in its blood – at the initiate’s own expense. Few men could afford a whole bull.
Well, sure, but Mithraism wasn’t the only religion in Rome. There were a whole bunch of competing religions and philosophies. And Mithraism wasn’t strongest in the city…it was strongest on the frontier, because that’s where the armies were.
And, as your link says:
I suppose it hinges on HOW it would change Islam. After all, Islam ALSO adopted much from Judaism, and the OP already said that remained in tact. I think that Islam MANY have been changed in some subtle ways without Christianity, but I think it would still essentially be the same (assuming it happened at all…when you start dinking with events in time, strange things happen…butterfly effect and all that :)). So I think Islam would still be the front runner for the religion of Europe if there was no Christianity.
I doubt Mithraism would have been a contender.
-XT
Rumor hath it that the early Xian church used the flesh of an actual lamb in its very early Communions, & the switched after re-locating out of Palestine to urban Rome, where I gather sheep were harder to find, & dearer to pay for. Persecution may have encouraged this, also.
I can’t recall where I read that, though, so feel free to ignore that part.
A variation on Mithraism, possibly the Cult of Isis (also quite popular in just pre-Christian Rome).
The time as ripe for a change. It’d be a sect with an emphasis on personal savation (that is, it’d have some kind of heaven) and a relatively progressive view on women (Jesus was much kinder to the ladies than Roman paganism, as evidenced by the number of upper-class Roman women among the early converts).
It’s related to Mithraism, and still has worshippers today. Freddy Mercury was one. And not just going off and joining some new philosophy like The Beatles or Madonna, no, he was born to it. Judaism took an awful lot of it’s uniqueness from it, and it is still strong enuf to continue. Sure, would like leaving under it, but still, I believe that that would succeed, where christianity would hypothetically fail.
I think it’s most likely that the official Roman religion, using the adpated-to-fit-Roman-gods Olympian theology, would have continued to evolve and would be the major religion of the empire until the fall. Whether it would survive attacks by ricval faiths (and, in the absence og Christianity, I’d bet there’d be a lot of others, even before Islam came on the scene).
I , for one, don’t think Mithraism is an unlikely candidate. It was already widespread throught the empire. Military men were the chief members, but they eventually settle down and have families. Religions evolve, and I think this one could have evolved into a Mass movement. Read, by the way, David Ulansey’s excellent book The Origins of the Mithraic Mysteries, where he attempts to solve the astronomical origins of the religion. If he’s correct, then Mithraism wasn’t really a Zoroastrian import, but a relatively new synthetic cult, rooted in science (!) Just the kind of religion that would be easiest to change.
Europe may not have had one single religion. When the Roman empire fell there were different barbarians with different religions spreading out, and populating the continent. This may have left Europe with a different religion in every different region/kingdon. This would probably lead to the Moores, and possibly the Turks, having taking over the continent, mkaing Islam the religion of Europe.
Of course, if Christianity had never happened there would be other effects. What of the Byzantine Empire, which was rooted strongly in Christianity? What of the Mongols? What if they hadn’t been stopped, and had conquered Europe? What strange hybrid religion(s) would have emerged then?
A bit long-winded, but there’s my two cents.