We agnostics, heck even we atheists have to wonder about consciousness from time to time. If I am sitting here in my Hobbit hole, looking out into the world - interpreting the weather the interactions between peoples and the origins of life itself on this rock in our solar system, what do I think is driving me to think those things? No one put it better in my opinion than Julian Jaynes:
But we know why; don’t we? We interpret our surroundings everyday by our senses. We assess our surroundings by touch, hearing, sight, smell and taste - we interpret signals sent to our brains and continue through life effortlessly. Is there something in their called a self? Does even the staunch atheist think about a spirit dwelling within?
I do.
I think about things like motivation, and not just the satisfying of cravings motivation but the deep seeded motivations that tell us to do things like have children, make more money, create meaning in our lives…I like to think that I am not just what I do, but I am something else, that there is a spirit inside.
Perhaps this is faith? However if that is faith what causes us to have faith in even ourselves? Survival perhaps?
A combination of inborn “programming” creating by millions of years of evolution, years of learning, and random environmental influences. That’s what make us what we are. We are a clumsy, slow, imprecise, poorly made chemical/biological computer. There’s no “spirit”, or any evidence such a thing is either possible or necessary.
For that matter, there’s no reason to believe that if there was one that it would be an improvement; we are what we are, limitations and all. Claiming we are partly made of some conveniently undetectable spirit won’t make us any less limited.
Such thoughts are the squealing feedback of biological processes sufficiently cranked up by run-away spiraling evolution of the brain. (IMHO) But enjoy it anyway.
I think that we just are - I don’t have to have faith that I just am - I just am. Just the Meat and its electrochemical activity. No Inspiration necessary. No Faith Added. Either that or you are using the words “faith” and “spirit” in ways I have no empathic connection with.
And BTW, “Gypped” might come and bite you on the ass when the offenderati pitch.
Not really. My senses and my brain and my nerves and the rest all combine to form a consciousness, a mind if you will, that is mayhap greater than the sum of its parts, but no more so than an airplane is more than its parts, simply because they’re put together just… right.
I like to think of myself as ELIZA[sup]100[/sup]. The rest of you have my permission to strive towards ELIZA[sup]50[/sup] level. But don’t strain yourselves.
What do you mean gypped? How is not having some made up thing some people imagine they feel being gypped? Why is anything spiritual necessary or even desirable? The human mind is amazing, why do people keep looking past it for things that don’t exist?
The garden is beautiful, why does there have to be faeries at the bottom of it?
We often think of ourselves as a body being piloted by a little man sitting at the controls in your brain, and that little man is really you, he’s your spirit.
But if that little man is really you, what’s in his head? Does it have a spirit in it too?
exactly. I’m asking because there are lot’s of folks who do believe in the faeries and who do believe in a spirit. Gypped was a colloquial expression, I should have chosen another word. But that’s the word my spirit insisted I use
If we weren’t motivated to breed, we’d never have evolved this far.
The drive for survival, and with greater affluence, comfort.
Human consciousness is pretty spectacular, and maybe being born into such a sophisticated animal is something we never really get over fully. I think that given all we can conceive of from a human perspective, it is tempting to consider that we are so ‘special’ that we extend beyond our mundane existence in some way, but to me that is no reason to consider it likely. I’m glad to have a few years of such peculiar awareness as this, but know I am only a drop in the ocean.
From The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind? Man, that was a tripy book! I think his general thesis is bunk, but I’ll go with the other poster who say: So what? In order to be “gypped” there had to be some kind of bargain. We are what we are, and just because we had some fantasies about something different earlier in our history, that means nothing. I find the universe to be even more fantastical without a God. Who wants to be a someone’s puppet or toy?
Boy when I was in college I thought that book was the bee’s knees. I know his tripy book was out there but that paragraph I always loved because it basically said everything and nothing all at the same time.
I agree completely who want’s to be someone’s puppet or toy? Not I, that is why I am quite agnostic. I believe in a spirit that may lay within, but to me universal oneness doesn’t lay with a dead white guy on a cross.
Do you mean “tripy,” as in “of or concerning hog innards,” or did you misspell “trippy?” I ask because either will fit.
As for the OP, that stuff is why I’m patronizing toward philosophers. They’re great people and loads of fun to get drunk and argue with, but one cannot pay any attention to those things in the clear light of day because they’ll drive you nuts. However, in fairness I should answer the questions: Yes, consciousness is “just” a chemical reaction. No, I don’t feel gypped. Er, Romed.
exactly. I’m asking because there are lot’s of folks who do believe in the faeries and who do believe in a spirit. Gypped was a colloquial expression, I should have chosen another word. But that’s the word my spirit insisted I use 