Was it John McCain who tried to brand himself as “maverick” and still be Republican? You can certainly attempt to brand yourself as (small-i) independent and capital-d Democrat. Especially if you’re leading the party: “I’m not beholden to Democrat groupthink! I am independent!” I mean, look at Trump. Okay, now you can look away again.
Of course he can’t do two political affiliations at once, but (1) Independent isn’t a party as such, and (2) he’s not trying to, is he?
Right. Independent is not a party, however it denotes that a person is not a member of a political party.
The U.S. Senate website refers to Sanders as an Independent, even as recently as yesterday’s roll call vote: https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=116&session=2&vote=00062
My contention is that Sanders may not simultaneously claim to be a Democrat, yet also claim that he is not a member of any political party i.e. an Independent.
Oh, I get you now. Thanks. In his current job, he is an Indedependent. In his next job (assuming he gets it), he’ll be a Democrat. He’s interviewing for that job. Just because the interview process is long and drawn-out…
But you’d rather, since he’s campaigning as a Democrat, that he switch his current party affiliation. I don’t agree that it’s necessary for him to do so, or that there’s any huge conflict, but at least now I see your point, which is quite reasonable.
Sanders has caucused with the Democrats every moment since he entered Congress, to the best of my knowledge. He is running as a Democrat in Democratic primaries. He will be the Democratic nominee if the convention votes for him. He will be the Democratic president if he wins.
I’ll bet that most of the country doesn’t know he’s an independent in the Senate. And I’ll bet that nobody except a few Sanders haters cares.
tl;dr He can be both, because he is.
I agree that he would not necessarily have to become a Democrat to run, but the DNC requires it, so he does.
In order to run, he affirmed that he is a member of the Democratic Party: DocumentCloud
Yet in the Senate, he insists (by virtue of remaining labeled as an Independent) that he is not a member of the Democratic Party.
Either way, logically he cannot be both at the same time.
I’d argue Sanders is more a democrat than democrats.
Yeah, I know you just popped a blood vessel at that outrageous claim. The Democratic party is whatever it says it is.
My contention is the Democratic party are supposed to be liberals. But they really are not any more. They are just not quite as far right Republicans these days (see Third Way politics the Clintons made popular).
For my money the country needs an actual liberal party and Sanders/Warren are that.
If Bernie is elected as a Dem then declares himself an Independent, we may have our first serious party split since the Bull Moose Party.
I’d have to review that document he signed but I believe that according to it (and IMO according to principles) that to be in the Democrat primary he has TO BE (not will be) a Democrat during the process.
Yes, and declaring for reelection as an independent would appear to be a violation of that pledge.
Waitaminute. If the DNC decides who’s a Democrat, they should do an October Surprise, and announce that the America-hating fuckstick and Pence are Democrats. Then there won’t be a MAGA moron alive who’ll vote for them.
Is anybody else in the world worrying about this? Is the Democratic Party suddenly going to be blindsided by some October Surprise? Are the Republicans using it as a weapon? Why is this an issue? Bernie is running as a Democrat, having filed official papers saying he is a Democrat. Any other filing does not cancel that out. It’s not like having conflicting citizenships or religions. Yes, Bernie Sanders is Jewish and also probably an atheist. Just like Donald Trump is a Christian and couldn’t spell God if spotted a G and an O. Makes no difference.
Just want to note that I am not a Bernie Bro, although I will enthusiastically back him if he’s the Democratic nominee. Because he’ll be the Democrat in the race. Period.
It might be a July surprise (probably not, but let’s pretend). Bernie signed a pledge, DocumentCloud , stating that “I am a member of the Democratic Party.”
If he signs another document that when asked for his party affiliation, he says “Independent” meaning that he is not a member of a political party then according to paragraph two, the National Chairperson of the DNC may then determine that he is not a “bona fide Democrat” and thus ineligible to have his name placed into nomination.
And the Chairperson would have an excellent case to make. He was an independent for years until 2016, signed the same pledge (possibly), then after not receiving the Dem nomination, reverted to independent status, and then signed this pledge in 2019, only to declare himself an independent again in 2020.
Does that sound like a “bona fide Democrat” to you? A guy who has only identified as a Democrat twice in his life in order to become a nominee for President and using the party in Congress for committee assignments? Plus he calls himself a socialist. Couldn’t a case reasonably be made?
Further, if the Chairperson makes that ruling, the delegates at the convention may override his decision by a majority vote, but he may not have a majority on the first ballot, and you know who else gets to vote on procedure? Superdelegates.
I wouldn’t be surprised at all if this is at least in the dark recesses of an evil anti-Bernie mind should the votes be there to pull it off.
Wow, it’s a good thing you found this amazing super-secret document that nobody at the DNC knows anything about. Now that’s it’s out in the open I’m sure that it will be weaponized in a sneak attack that will be a total surprise to the Sanders campaign.
:smack:
UltraVires, what you are laying out would be absolutely within both the letter and IMO the spirit of the rules. But even I would be hesitant to press that nuclear button.
ETA: Exapno, you can scoff all you want, but it does say something about Bernie’s (lack of) integrity that he is willing to so contemptuously flout a sincere desire of the Democratic Party to offer its platform and resources only to those who are bonafide members of the party. People can hijack parties: Pat Buchanan did it to the Reform Party in 2000 (and I still believe this was a conspiracy by the Bush campaign).
Well, remember when everybody was pointing this out in 2016 when he was upsetting the Clinton campaign with his success and progressives were accusing her of sabotaging Sanders? No? Probably because it never happened.
It didn’t matter then. It won’t matter now. The DNC will do nothing because the issue is too stupid even for Trump to make a fuss over.
If otherwise sane people here people continue to try to make it an issue, my scoffing will become ever louder.
The way to make an issue of it is not through parliamentary maneuvers but through campaigning, as Biden very conspicuously (and IMO effectively) did in his Saturday night speech pointing out that he is a real, lifelong Democrat.
Which is fine. Bernie can riposte that he is a progressive and where the party should be and will be in the future and he can lead them there. And that he never pulled a Romney and he was there with the Democrats on every single vote where party unity was crucial. Then Biden can point out that this is not the future and that Sanders has never been successful in leading the party to get anything done. And so on.
Just don’t try to pull out a sheet of paper at the last minute and expect the world to flip over end.
I especially liked it when he urged someone from the left to challenge Obama in 2012: https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/bernie-sanders-talks-primary-challenge-obama-good-idea-our-democracy-and-democratic-part/
Putz.
This strikes me as a non-issue. If the DNC is okay with it, why should anyone else give a fuck? I’m not a Bernie Bro, but this is an asinine question. if the DNC has polls showing that he’ll beat Trump, I’m sure they’d be okay with him claiming to be both a Democrat and an independent. I mean, he can’t have both jobs at the same time, so this seems like a trivial thing to get worked up about.
The DNC is not “okay with it”. They introduced this loyalty oath precisely because they are *not *okay with it. You understand, this is not just some dusty old rule they’ve always had. It’s brand spanking new for 2020, just coincidentally the cycle right after Bernie ran as a not-really-Democrat in 2016. Bernie, as he is disturbingly wont to do, pulled a Trumpian maneuver by signing it and then conspicuously flouting it with that Senate paperwork. Like, “Okay, I’ll sign the damn thing, but then I’ll immediately blow it off–whaddaya gonna do about it? I can destroy your party!”
Same as how he promised to release his taxes during the 2016 campaign (“we’ve been busy”) but then didn’t until years later. Same as how he promised to release complete medical records in the wake of a heart attack that looked like it might derail his campaign, but then later pulled an Emily Latella on that when the heat receded. Same as how he was all for superdelegates making a determination “in the best interests of the party” when he thought they might maybe choose him instead of Hillary in 2016, but now it’s got to be the plurality winner.
He would be infinitely better than Trump, and far more honest, but that’s only because of the very low bar. Among Democrats, he is as disingenuous and slippery as they come, quite ironically given his holier-than-thou projection of an image of supposed probity and bedrock consistency.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/5759487-Bernie-Sanders-signs-DNC-loyalty-pledge.html