I work for a non-profit company that’s using logo for its most public subdivision. Basically, it’s begging for a revision, and I think I have the perfect idea for the redesign. I’m no artist, but I have a trustworthy friend from childhood who is. Plus, if I did try and draw it myself, I don’t know whether I could sell it internally for the same $$$ (intellectual property, etc.) I could describe it to my friend and adjust accordingly.
I’m thinking I could work out percentages with my friend, and have it present it to them after copyrighting it as a partnership design, with me remaining nameless.
So, a few questions, if I may:
How much money does a good logo garner? Although non-profit, the parent company’s net is about 13-14 million/year. Aside from the parent logo, the logo in question is the most forward-facing representation of the business.
Am I better off remaining anonymous?
What’s the standard split between concept and artist?
As stated in the title, if I have the goods, will this fly?
Logo design alone ranges from $99 for those logo sweatshops, to $500 - 1000 or so for someone experienced. (that not counting applying the logo and new colors/fonts/whatever to every piece of collateral in the company) Those huge logo paychecks you hear about for the new Pepsi logo or whatever are not for the logo alone, but for hundred of hours of meetings with the principals and the design team, research on possible infringements, surveys for negative/positive connotation in every single culture, a 300 page branding doc that explains how to use the branding on every card, stationery, sign, website and fleaspeck, etc…
Re concept v. artist…ideas are a dime a dozen. It’s execution that makes the idea great. It’s the difference between this and this. It’s like telling an author you have a great idea, and if he’d just write the book you’d split the profits 50/50. There is no standard concept/artist split because no one does it outside of, say, public contests to solicit 5th grader’s ideas for your township’s new logo.
Now, you can go ahead and do it, but your friend may not be so keen to work on hours on a logo for the chance that someone at a company that has expressed no wish for a new logo will think it’s great and will pay you and you’'ll give him some of it. You may think it’s a perfect logo, but does the CEO and his wife and all his flunkies think so too? Maybe it’s blue and he hates blue. Maybe it’s not modern enough. That’s why usually in logo design you talk to the people who are paying first and find out what they’re looking for.
Your logo is worth nothing. Sorry, but that’s the bottom line.
Unless you’re a famous designer who has been commissioned to design a logo, you can’t expect anything for your work. Take it to them and see what they offer you - maybe a couple of hundred dollars, maybe a thanks, but no thanks.
I don’t really understand this. “Aside from the parent logo, the logo in question is the most forward-facing representation of the business.”
You mean the logo they currently have but you’ve re-designed? The only value in a logo is that the public associate the logo with the business. If you have a new logo, the public recognition of it is zero (unless the business name is in the logo, or its merely a derivation of the original logo).
Your best bet is to convince the company that they need a new logo, and that you know someone who can do it, and then get the company to commission your artist friend to make it.
Logo design is a smallish part of our business (we’re a communications firm that specializes in non-profits). We typically charge anywhere from 3 to 12 thousand, depending on the client and if/how it fits into a larger project. As noted upthread, there is a lot of research and work that goes into professional *logo *design, much more than in pretty emblem design.
I don’t know of any “standard” split between concept and artists in the situation you’re describing. Perhaps you could hit Craigs List or some other outlet, hire a graphic designer to follow your instructions, then present the product to the powers that be (be sure to be straightforward with the artist about reusing the graphic to avoid any embarrassing noise afterwards). This means laying out cash up front, and more for lots of revisions (i.e., the client/your boss wants it a bit more orangy or snappier), but then your artist friend would be laying out his/her time on the project.
Whether you could do this anonymously or not depends on your corporate culture, the likelihood of becoming known, and the ramifications thereof.
The main company logo is fine; it’s the subdivisions’, probably more prevalent than the main logo in our advertising, that I see as uninteresting and weak.
I’ll probably take this route, as it was my original approach. Maybe it’ll be something to tell my grandkids on the outside chance the company bites. Thanks for all your responses. Not disappointed, just glad I won’t blow any big bucks by giving it away.
(It’ll go up on Facebook first so my coworkers will corroborate that it was my original idea. Save on copyright fees…)
I think I’m a bit confused by your proposal, as it’s not an approach to logo design as I know it.
Let me explain the normal process…
Designers don’t rock up at companies offering a logo for sale. Companies commission a designer/agency to design a logo/brand for them, and the designer will present a range of options, from which they’ll choose one for further development. What the designer/agency charges for this is a bit how long is a piece of string, but if it was purely creating a logo, it would go something like this (excluding any research/auditing that is done first):
Concept design, (min) three designs, $1-4k
Design development of chosen design, $1-4k
Artwork and supply of digital files for various media, $500-1000K
Brand guidelines on logo usage, $5-10k
Copyright normally resides with the company who directly employs the designer. So if I am self-employed, commissioned by a company to design them a logo, I retain copyright. If I am working with a design company who have been commissioned by the company then the design agency retains copyright. And if I was employed as an in-house, salaried designer for the commissioning company, then as an employee I surrender my copyright to the company. Are you not an employee of the company you want to sell your logo to? If you’re coming up with creative ideas to help your company improve its business (whether that’s having ideas for logos, marketing strategies, whatever) then surely that falls under your employment terms with the company? Just a question.
Final point. Many companies suffer from logo-itis, inventing logos for all manner of subdivisions and campaigns. A marketing director within your company (if you have one) should resist these as they dilute your brand and might resent your interference. Your sub-brand should be viewed as part of a much wider scheme. It sounds like you might be stepping on people’s toes, so tread carefully.
Glad you’re going to be upfront with your company. It’s a basic principle that if you stand to gain from the sale of the logo, the company you work for has the right to know that.
Just 'cause your seventh is flat, no need to let your ethics be, too.
(I confess - this reply is simply so I could insert that lame music-geek joke about your user-name!)
I don’t know anything about logos and IANAL but I think you might want to have a chat with one, if this whole scheme starts to pan out.
You are suggesting that you are going to offer to sell a logo to the company you are working for. If you design the logo while being employed by them, they might own it and you may not be able to charge them for it, depending on what you signed when you became an employee. If you try to figure out a way to do this covertly it could get ugly if they find out you are behind it. You are also flirting with a conflict of interest.
I am not saying that this is a certain problem for you but I am suggesting that you talk to someone who really knows about this stuff.
