If I only knew then what I know now...

[Ambivalid]

@Cazzle

You spat on his car, but you know all about behaving like an adult. Sure you do.

I did NOT call you a jerk. I said “If it looks like a jerk and rolls like a jerk…”. Have you never heard the phrase “If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck - then it must be a duck”? To the father, your behaviour must have looked and sounded jerkish, and he assumed you were a jerk.

Again, I didn’t call you any names and I didn’t call you a wheelchair-bound maniac. I said that they don’t teach you how to give wheelchair-bound maniacs the benefit of the doubt in antenatal classes. If you have a frightened child trying to describe the experience of having someone baring down on them at high speed in a wheelchair while yelling and waving their arms, your perception is going to be that you are dealing with a wheelchair-bound maniac. The right thing to do is calmly, rationally assess the situation and determine if that wheelchair-bound guy is actually a maniac, but people don’t always get it right every time, especially when it comes to the safety of their children.

You can see my sympathy is not with you, and I’ll explain why: as a parent, I can picture myself being so startled by my panicking child’s garbled explanation of what sounds like an unprovoked attack by a stranger that I overreact and yell at someone who intended the child no harm and only frightened him by accident, but I cannot ever imagine myself in a situation where a confrontation would lead to me spitting on someone’s car. What kind of adult does that? Combined with your bizarre insistence that they wouldn’t have thought you were a pervert if you weren’t disabled, and all the repititions of BUT I WAS NEW TO THE WHEELCHAIR as if they somehow should have known, and your underscoring this as though you were the victim and this is just another example of the World Vs. People In Wheelchairs without even the slightest acknowledgement that maybe you scared a small child quite a lot and perhaps he’s deserving of some sympathy too…

Ok, first of all, the guy was threatening me with gross violence. WHAT KIND OF AN ADULT DOES THAT? Before he asked me a single question to possibly clarify the story. And my “repetitions” of being new to the chair you clearly misunderstood their purpose and placement in my OP. It was NOT in order to say that others should have somehow known I was new to being disabled. Not at all. It was to underscore my mental and psychological preparedness for social interactions that were different than those from before my accident. And you clearly havent read my posts well, or you would see that I very much did have understanding and empathy for the frightened child. Did you miss that part? Or did you selectively omit it?

[Ambivalid]

@Cazzle

You spat on his car, but you know all about behaving like an adult. Sure you do.

I did NOT call you a jerk. I said “If it looks like a jerk and rolls like a jerk…”. Have you never heard the phrase “If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck - then it must be a duck”? To the father, your behaviour must have looked and sounded jerkish, and he assumed you were a jerk.

Again, I didn’t call you any names and I didn’t call you a wheelchair-bound maniac. I said that they don’t teach you how to give wheelchair-bound maniacs the benefit of the doubt in antenatal classes. If you have a frightened child trying to describe the experience of having someone baring down on them at high speed in a wheelchair while yelling and waving their arms, your perception is going to be that you are dealing with a wheelchair-bound maniac. The right thing to do is calmly, rationally assess the situation and determine if that wheelchair-bound guy is actually a maniac, but people don’t always get it right every time, especially when it comes to the safety of their children.

You can see my sympathy is not with you, and I’ll explain why: as a parent, I can picture myself being so startled by my panicking child’s garbled explanation of what sounds like an unprovoked attack by a stranger that I overreact and yell at someone who intended the child no harm and only frightened him by accident, but I cannot ever imagine myself in a situation where a confrontation would lead to me spitting on someone’s car. What kind of adult does that? Combined with your bizarre insistence that they wouldn’t have thought you were a pervert if you weren’t disabled, and all the repititions of BUT I WAS NEW TO THE WHEELCHAIR as if they somehow should have known, and your underscoring this as though you were the victim and this is just another example of the World Vs. People In Wheelchairs without even the slightest acknowledgement that maybe you scared a small child quite a lot and perhaps he’s deserving of some sympathy too…

Ok, you didn’t CALL me names, you simply alluded to them.

[Cazzle]

@jamiemcgarry

And my “repetitions” of being new to the chair you clearly misunderstood their purpose and placement in my OP. It was NOT in order to say that others should have somehow known I was new to being disabled. Not at all. It was to underscore my mental and psychological preparedness for social interactions that were different than those from before my accident. And you clearly havent read my posts well, or you would see that I very much did have understanding and empathy for the frightened child. Did you miss that part? Or did you selectively omit it?

Sorry, I must have missed the expressed concern and empathy in amongst the descriptions of your mirth at seeing the boy running away in fright.

Seventeen years ago I was working along in an office building that had a long series of windows running along an arcade. Every day children would walk along the arcade running their hands along the windows making a loud DONK! DONK! DONK! DONK! DONK! DONK! One day I opened the door and said to the child who was DONK! DONK! DONKing “Please don’t run your hands along the windows”. Child just looked at me, open-mouthed and non-responsive. I went back into my office. Seconds later the door was heaved open and a psychotic, infuriated, venom-dripping she-beast from hell started screaming at me about how DARE I speak like that to her perfect precious and she was going to beat the living shit out of me and do not ever talk to her child like that again or she would kill me because I was nothing but a stupid bitch and… you get the picture.

Of course, this encounter was because she must have mistaken my office chair for a wheelchair. Had she seen that I was able-bodied, she would never have threatened me with bodily violence and death for issuing the mildest of rebukes to her child.

[twickster]

Jamie, I’m not seeing Cazzle insult you personally, rather describing what s/he perceives as the parent’s reaction.

If either of you does wish to insult the other personally, please take it to the Pit.

twickster, MPSIMS moderator

[needscoffee]

@jamiemcgarry

I can promise you that you are very wrong on that. I mean an active wheelchair being used out in the realworld. I see it every single day, the wide-eyed, slack-jawed, stopped-in-their-tracks looks on the faces of young kids who pass by me in my wheelchair. It is a pretty unmistakably look. I’ve seen it hundreds of times. Now certain areas, metropolitan areas, may have young kids exposed to more things like wheelchair users at an earlier age; but around here, uh-uh. And I could be wrong, I’m very bad at guessing ages, he could have been 7. All I know is he was a small child.

Not to beat a dead horse, but if you’re getting looks in your chair, it’s due to something other than just being in it. Kids today see wheelchairs on Sesame Street, Barney, Malcolm in the Middle, mainstreamed into their classes, grocery stores, malls (THE prime place, I see at least 3 or 4 people in wheelchairs every single time I go), etc. Their grandparent may be in a wheelchair, or a great-aunt or great-uncle, etc. I’d bet they’re not used to seeing YOU in a wheelchair, someone who looks fit and strong (although maybe you didn’t just out of the hospital), but something else about your appearance, not the chair in and of itself. Kids never stop with the stopped-in-their-tracks looks on their faces when seeing someone less than wholly-able, though, (much to their parents’ chagrin!) unless they already have a close relationship with someone in that position.

[Smeghead]

Sounds like you handled a difficult situation with your usual grace and charm.

[Ambivalid]

@needscoffee

Not to beat a dead horse, but if you’re getting looks in your chair, it’s due to something other than just being in it. Kids today see wheelchairs on Sesame Street, Barney, Malcolm in the Middle, mainstreamed into their classes, grocery stores, malls (THE prime place, I see at least 3 or 4 people in wheelchairs every single time I go), etc. Their grandparent may be in a wheelchair, or a great-aunt or great-uncle, etc. I’d bet they’re not used to seeing YOU in a wheelchair, someone who looks fit and strong (although maybe you didn’t just out of the hospital), but something else about your appearance, not the chair in and of itself. Kids never stop with the stopped-in-their-tracks looks on their faces when seeing someone less than wholly-able, though, (much to their parents’ chagrin!) unless they already have a close relationship with someone in that position.

Again, I believe the location make all the difference. Where do you live? In Flint, Mi. the chances of seeing another person in a chair at the mall, grocery store, or even in their classes; is slim to none. Now it’s true, they may see charicatures of people in chairs on kids’ tv programming but that is not comparable to experiencing it in real life.

[Ambivalid]

@needscoffee

Not to beat a dead horse, but if you’re getting looks in your chair, it’s due to something other than just being in it. Kids today see wheelchairs on Sesame Street, Barney, Malcolm in the Middle, mainstreamed into their classes, grocery stores, malls (THE prime place, I see at least 3 or 4 people in wheelchairs every single time I go), etc. Their grandparent may be in a wheelchair, or a great-aunt or great-uncle, etc. I’d bet they’re not used to seeing YOU in a wheelchair, someone who looks fit and strong (although maybe you didn’t just out of the hospital), but something else about your appearance, not the chair in and of itself. Kids never stop with the stopped-in-their-tracks looks on their faces when seeing someone less than wholly-able, though, (much to their parents’ chagrin!) unless they already have a close relationship with someone in that position.

To further compliment my point, it is common to be in public situations and overhear a child’s question to his mother (or caregiver) in the nature of: “what is that mommy?” or “What’s that man doing mommy?” or “Why can’t he walk mommy?” And these questions are always accompanied by wide-eyed stares and momentary paralysis. These are not the reactions of children who have been exposed to such elements of society before.

[chiroptera]

@jamiemcgarry

Again, I believe the location make all the difference. Where do you live? In Flint, Mi. the chances of seeing another person in a chair at the mall, grocery store, or even in their classes; is slim to none. Now it’s true, they may see charicatures of people in chairs on kids’ tv programming but that is not comparable to experiencing it in real life.

Um. I have to rebut this, since I live here too (just north of Flint.)
Wheelchairs aren’t less common here than anywhere else. And every Wal-Mart and grocery store has those motorized chairs for people to trundle around in; heck we’re one of the fattest states in the nation; lots of people use those. Not technically wheelchairs but a little kid wouldn’t make the distinction.

My psycho ex had RA and would sometimes use them in stores, at the zoo, etc. Sometimes they’d all be taken.

I spent part of the day at Greenfield Village and saw two people in wheelchairs. OK, that’s not Flint, but an hour away.

[Ambivalid]

@chiroptera

Um. I have to rebut this, since I live here too (just north of Flint.)
Wheelchairs aren’t less common here than anywhere else. And every Wal-Mart and grocery store has those motorized chairs for people to trundle around in; heck we’re one of the fattest states in the nation; lots of people use those. Not technically wheelchairs but a little kid wouldn’t make the distinction.

My psycho ex had RA and would sometimes use them in stores, at the zoo, etc. Sometimes they’d all be taken.

I spent part of the day at Greenfield Village and saw two people in wheelchairs. OK, that’s not Flint, but an hour away.

Motorized scooters available in stores doesn’t not qualify as “wheelchair users as part of the general population”. And a walmart electric scooter also would never be found in the scenario of the oP. So those aren’t really a comparison. And I really should make the distinction between very old and fraile people who must at times rely on wheelchairs simply due to their deteriorating health and age and those who are considered “wheelchair-bound”. I stand by my original assertion 100%. I’ve lived in this area as a wheelchair user for the past 11yrs, I have a pretty good idea of just how many others there are OUT HERE in this area grinding away like everyone else. It’s very small. Very.

[chiroptera]

@jamiemcgarry

Motorized scooters available in stores doesn’t not qualify as “wheelchair users as part of the general population”. And a walmart electric scooter also would never be found in the scenario of the oP. So those aren’t really a comparison. And I really should make the distinction between very old and fraile people who must at times rely on wheelchairs simply due to their deteriorating health and age and those who are considered “wheelchair-bound”. I stand by my original assertion 100%. I’ve lived in this area as a wheelchair user for the past 11yrs, I have a pretty good idea of just how many others there are OUT HERE in this area grinding away like everyone else. It’s very small. Very.

My point was that small children won’t understand the distinction, so someone scooting around on a chair, regardless of the context, is not exactly a new thing.

People out and about in wheelchairs is not a common, daily sight, this is true. But that applies to anywhere - Flint doesn’t somehow have fewer chair users than other places. Where else have you lived? I’ve lived in four states and several different countries.

Since it’s not a common thing anywhere, sure…I imagine you’re likely to get stares or stupid questions, or kids asking questions about the funny-looking man who isn’t walking like everyone else, or asshole parents.

I once offered to help push someone (who appeared to be having trouble) in a wheelchair across the street. I got a quite hostile reaction: the man didn’t want help. OK, fine. But while I understand the reaction, it doesn’t make it easy for non-disabled people to know how to act appropriately. I think perhaps you can choose to dispel ignorance and discomfort, or you can go ballistic and spit on peoples’ vehicles…

Given the tone of your posts here, and the story about you in the news, I have the impression that you’re overly, perhaps needlessly, defensive and aggressive with people. I get (theoretically) the anger about being paralyzed due to no fault of your own but does it serve you well?

[needscoffee]

@jamiemcgarry

Again, I believe the location make all the difference. Where do you live? In Flint, Mi. the chances of seeing another person in a chair at the mall, grocery store, or even in their classes; is slim to none. Now it’s true, they may see charicatures of people in chairs on kids’ tv programming but that is not comparable to experiencing it in real life.

When my kids watched children’s programming, several shows including Barney and Sesame Street featured main children characters in wheelchairs, not caricatures.

I find it very difficult to believe that Flint, MI prevents all the wheelchair users from going out the way they do in other cities. Or that there are fewer wheelchair users present than in other cities.

To further compliment my point, it is common to be in public situations and overhear a child’s question to his mother (or caregiver) in the nature of: “what is that mommy?” or “What’s that man doing mommy?” or “Why can’t he walk mommy?” And these questions are always accompanied by wide-eyed stares and momentary paralysis. These are not the reactions of children who have been exposed to such elements of society before.

Yes, but that happens at a much earlier age than the kid you were talking about; I’d venture to guess pre-school/kindergarten. By the time they’re in school, it’s no longer such an oddity. Every school my kids have ever attended had handicapped kids, both mainstreamed and not depending on level of severity.

[Guinastasia]

@chiroptera

Yeah, the guy overreacted but so did you. Hopefully you’ve learned to take the higher road since.

If you’re familiar with jamie’s posts, sadly he has not.
Hell, if I’m in my thirties, and if I saw some guy barreling at me in a wheelchair, waving his arms and yelling, I’d probably be freaked out too.
Dude, do you WANT to be known as “That Guy in the Wheelchair”? Or do you want to be known as Jamie?

[Ambivalid]

@Guinastasia

If you’re familiar with jamie’s posts, sadly he has not.
Hell, if I’m in my thirties, and if I saw some guy barreling at me in a wheelchair, waving his arms and yelling, I’d probably be freaked out too.
Dude, do you WANT to be known as “That Guy in the Wheelchair”? Or do you want to be known as Jamie?

Your posts still leave a sour taste in my mouth Guinastasia. You confuse your dislikefor me for my actual persona and content of posts. And I was never waving my arms or yelling as I was barreling towards him. That was only when he had took off running once I reached the bottom of the hill. I was motionless. So don’t get details a “little mixed up” in order to make your point look better. Guinastasia, you imply that you are familiar with my posts, would you please show me (or chiroptera) a instance (or instances) of me “not taking the higher road”.? Please?

[Guinastasia]

You’re wrong – I don’t dislike you at all. BUT, you do leave the impression of having a big chip on your shoulder, and that you like playing the martyr.

[Ambivalid]

@Guinastasia

You’re wrong – I don’t dislike you at all. BUT, you do leave the impression of having a big chip on your shoulder, and that you like playing the martyr.

This story was nothing more than a recollection of what I experienced as a 20 year old kid JUST getting out of the hospital, trying to deal with a new spinal cord injury and everything that entails. THAT is where I was coming from in the interaction with the man. I never tried to put myself as an innocent victim here. Go back and look at the OP. I said I “didn’t handle it well.” I don’t see either of those images (chip on shoulder, martyr) being applicable here. If so, please show me.

BTW, do we really want to go back and look at all the posts and replies of yours to threads of mine? It would clearly and plainly show a poster who only wanted to be argumentative and quite surly and negative (at every turn)

[needscoffee]

Would you two just get a room already?!

[Vihaga]

@needscoffee

Would you two just get a room already?!

Ha! No kidding.
Spitting on someone’s car is insane. Likewise, chasing someone down in your van because your idiot child is afraid of someone chasing them down in a wheelchair is also insane. No points awarded this round!
In keeping with the thread title’s idea of “if I knew then what I knew now,” I’d have had a lot more fun as a kid and been less of a goody two-shoes if I’d realized how little misbehavior in school would ever have an impact on my later life.

[Scissorjack]

@Smeghead

Sounds like you handled a difficult situation with your usual grace and charm.

They see him rollin’, they hatin’.

[Joey_P]

@Scissorjack

They see him rollin’, they hatin’.

That’s funny.

Jaime, I’m going to agree with the others, I think most every 7 or 8 year old has seen a wheel chair. If they truly are staring (as opposed to it just being a confirmation bias or a bit of paranoia), it’s because they probably haven’t seen a spray tanned body builder with a shaved head in a wheel chair. You linked to your facebook page in another thread (I won’t do it, but others can find it or you can link to it again if you want). You do look different then the typical wheelchair bound person and it’s not because people have never seen someone in a wheelchair. But then, I don’t know if you were a body builder before the accident.

Also, I don’t know what kind of chair you have, but if it’s one of those smaller all black ones with the feet closer together and the wheels slightly angled in…those always catch my attention when I see them since they look so much different then the big ‘normal’ ones.