"If I'm old enough to die for my country, I'm old enough to drink a beer."

[DudleyGarrett]

@What Exit?

When were you in and what was your rank?

I mean holy shit, no one at age 19 made close to that kind of money when I was in and I can’t even comprehend how what you wrote could be factual. E5 was about the highest enlisted rank that was possible for a 19 year old and Cadet for those in training to be an officer. Neither of these ranks could hope to make $35,000 per year as late as 1989.

I made at most, maybe $14,500 with sea pay and was lucky I had found a great '77 Camaro that I could afford and maintain myself. When I was in the pay was absolute shit. Somehow the money spent to build a 600 ship Navy and modern weapons for the other services never seemed to make it down to us serving.

I think you mentioned that you were 34 and so you seem to be saying by 1993 the pay scale had jumped that far? Something sounds wrong here. Perhaps you wrote the wrong figure or you are calculating in worth of benefits?

Jim

I was in Italy in 1994-1996 and I was an E-4.

Base pay was around 14K a year.
BAS (sustenance) was $2400/yr.
BAQ (housing) was $9.6/yr – those Italian apartments are expensive, especially when there is a shortage because the base itself grew from 800 inhabitants to 6000 in 3 months.
COLA was about $5K/yr

Plus per diem for going on TDY once a month (plus the aforementioned duesey in Bosnia). It was actually a bit over $35K a year.

I was calculating in various allowances, because in the civilian world, as you’re well aware, no one pays for your housing or food.

[Bear_Nenno]

@DudleyGarrett

Shit pay? At 19, I was living in a three bedroom mostly-marble apartment at the foot of the Italian Alps, I was driving a relatively new BMW, and I was pulling in $35,000 a year (considering my rent and food were paid and I was receiving COLA).

After I separated, it took me three years as a civilian to earn that kind of living.

Don’t paint the picture that being in the military is always bad.

Hell, I am pulling in 6 figures, have no bills or payments, and I’m not even that high of a rank.
I still like the idea of speeding ticket amnesty though. That would be awesome.

[DudleyGarrett]

@Argent Towers

I gotta ask too - what the hell did you do? Were you the son of the CIA director?

Right rank, right martial status, right unit, right place, right time, I’m sure.

But I wouldn’t say it’s rare. I’m guessing 5-10% of the total force has it this good today or even better.

[What_Exit]

@DudleyGarrett

I was in Italy in 1994-1996 and I was an E-4.

Base pay was around 14K a year.
BAS (sustenance) was $2400/yr.
BAQ (housing) was $9.6/yr – those Italian apartments are expensive, especially when there is a shortage because the base itself grew from 800 inhabitants to 6000 in 3 months.
COLA was about $5K/yr

Plus per diem for going on TDY once a month (plus the aforementioned duesey in Bosnia). It was actually a bit over $35K a year.

I was calculating in various allowances, because in the civilian world, as you’re well aware, no one pays for your housing or food.

Apparently I joined the wrong service and was in the wrong rate on top of that. I lived on the Carrier and the only extra I got was $100 per month sea pay. That brought me up to the $14,500 as an E-4 and I was 21 by then. At 19 I was making closer to $10,000.

I assume COLA is a Cost of living adjustment. That would be very rare in the Navy when below age 21. Most people on their first enlistment did not see overseas duty at a base.

If you got 3 roommates would you still have gotten the $9600? If not, it is hard to equate directly to salary as it was not money you could control the spending of. They failed to provide base housing and reimbursed you for expenses is the way I would look at it.

Bear_Nenno: 6 figures? Damn, how do you pull that off?

[DudleyGarrett]

@What Exit?

Apparently I joined the wrong service and was in the wrong rate on top of that. I lived on the Carrier and the only extra I got was $100 per month sea pay. That brought me up to the $14,500 as an E-4 and I was 21 by then. At 19 I was making closer to $10,000.

I assume COLA is a Cost of living adjustment. That would be very rare in the Navy when below age 21. Most people on their first enlistment did not see overseas duty at a base.

If you got 3 roommates would you still have gotten the $9600? If not, it is hard to equate directly to salary as it was not money you could control the spending of. They failed to provide base housing and reimbursed you for expenses is the way I would look at it.

Bear_Nenno: 6 figures? Damn, how do you pull that off?

I was overseas as an E-3, my second duty station (I was at my first – Scott AFB, IL – for just about a year). They paid COLA then too, but it was a bit less.

If I had three roommates, I would have still received the money. In the AF, they can’t (or won’t) dictate how you live or who you live with if you do so off base.

I’m pretty sure I could have gotten a much crappier apartment if I didn’t drag my feet (I lived in an ancient hotel for 4 months after they kicked me out of the dorms – rank too high). But when they were done paying my hotel bill and forced me to get an apartment, that was what was available.

Like I said, I think a lot of circumstances came together at the same time, and I landed myself in an $800/month apartment.

I lumped in that money as income because it was spent on an apartment that I enjoyed for nearly 18 months and the government paid for it. I don’t understand why it’s relevant as to why things happened. They paid me $800 a month and I paid my landlord.

[Bear_Nenno]

@What Exit?

Bear_Nenno: 6 figures? Damn, how do you pull that off?

Approximately:

Base Pay- $2607.60
Food Pay- $294.43 ( PLUS four free hot meals a day )
Housing Pay- $3703.30
Location Pay- $100.00
Hazard Duty Pay- $225.00
COLA- $344.67
Family Seperation Pay - $250.00
Per Diem - $100

All that a month, plus it is tax free. It’s over $90,000 NET pay. So I dont think it’s too far of a stretch to say it’s the equivalent of a 6 Figure Taxed salary in the states.

It’s nothing compared to what the civilians are making over here. But it is pleanty for me.

[What_Exit]

@Bear_Nenno

Approximately:

Base Pay- $2607.60
Food Pay- $294.43 ( PLUS four free hot meals a day )
Housing Pay- $3703.30
Location Pay- $100.00
Hazard Duty Pay- $225.00
COLA- $344.67
Family Seperation Pay - $250.00
Per Diem - $100

All that a month, plus it is tax free. It’s over $90,000 NET pay. So I dont think it’s too far of a stretch to say it’s the equivalent of a 6 Figure Taxed salary in the states.

It’s nothing compared to what the civilians are making over here. But it is pleanty for me.

Wow! Hell, when I was in, I had to pay federal and state income tax on my pittance.

[DudleyGarrett]

@What Exit?

Wow! Hell, when I was in, I had to pay federal and state income tax on my pittance.

He’s in the Middle East.

Even when I was in, those assignments were tax-free. Even for civilians.

[BrightNShiny]

@What Exit?

1. They are still treated very differently from civilians by the government they have sworn to protect. That is what they signed up for, but minor differences in treatment can be two way if we continue the farce of a 21 drinking age.

I have no idea what you’re trying to say here.

2. Police can still quit, military cannot.

Sure they can. There might not be optimal ways to leave the military, such as “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell,” but they exist.

3. Good point, honestly, the best point you made. I can tell you that this was the only one that bothered me when I was in that age bracket and in the service. So I am letting my opinion be clouded by remembering how annoying and stupid it seemed back then.

So, you’re argument seems to be that the government should aribitrarily carve out exceptions to groups you belong to based on your own personal preferences. Doesn’t seem very fair to soldiers who don’t or can’t drink. Doesn’t seem very fair to anybody else either. It’s also a narcissistic way to approach public policy–you’re trying to use your own personal experiences and preferences to determine what laws should govern the rest of us. No thanks.