If James Was Jesus' Brother......

Factual Questions
1

… what would the name be in Aramaeic?

Thanks

Q

2

Yaʻaqov bar Yosep. (IANAn Aramaic scholar, but these is the Aramaic forms of the name and patronym per wiki.) James=Jacob, and Joseph is sometimes transliterated Yosef and sometimes Yosep so I’m guessing it sounds kind of like both but not exactly like either our ‘p’ and ‘f’.

The St. James Ossuary discovered a few years ago bore the Aramaic inscription (possibly a forgery) Ya’akov bar-Yosef akhui diYeshua- “=Jacob son of Joseph brother of Jesus”. Picture with notes debunking the authenticity.

3

Thanks very much for the links and the information, Sampiro! :slight_smile: The notes on the lettering were especially interesting!

Quasi

4

Aramaic is a “compact” language, in that one single word is used to describe things that we are accustomed to have a bunch of individual words.

“Brother” is an example. In Aramaic, “brother” signifies a familial relationship. Full brother, half brother, step brother, even cousin, are all called “brother” in Aramaic.
~VOW

5

I find historical novels about Jesus extremely interesting, and I especially would like to know more about (St.) James and I am sorry that the ossuary was deemed a fake. Obviously there is much more about Jesus (the man) we have yet to learn.

Thanks

Q

6

Almost. The letter in question can be either p or f, depending on the context. I’m pretty bad at Hebrew and don’t remember my lessons, but I think that usually it’s a p at the start of the word and an f in the middle or end. Yosef has a simple f sound at the end.

7

Quasimodem
look for a novel; at your library by Frank Yerby entitled Judas, My Brother.
you will probably like it.

8

Thank you, longhair75! :slight_smile: I’ll see if it’s on the Kindle!

Thanks

Quasi

9

To Quasimodo:

If you can expand your interest to historical fiction about Palestine, I wholeheartedly recommend The Source, by James Michener.

Actually, damn near ALL books by James Michener are outstanding!
~VOW

10

James Michener, the writer who starts most of his novels taking one back to pre-historical times? :wink:

I love that guy, but have not read The Source!

Thanks for the suggestion!

Q

11

EEEEp, Quasimodem, many apologies.

Yes, THAT James Michener. If you are familiar with his work, then you will LOVE The Source.
~VOW

12

For what? That is my all time favorite Victor Hugo novel!!! Hence the name. I have had it since I went online in 1992, but now there are a bunch of us running around the net. I believe I have dibs on the name, but I’m not sure.

No apologies necessary, VOW, really!

13

Is that actually the case ? I thought in languages where is there is no word for “cousin” then the explicit relationship is spelled out (e.g. “my brother’s son”).

I don’t want to get into GD territory (and would happily accept a cite that I am wrong). This always struck me (rather like the whole thing about the “eye of the needle” being a gate in Jerusalem) that later theologians came up with to get themselves of out bind. With bloodlines being so important those days (and the Greek word for cousin being used elsewhere in the New Testament).

14

Then what is your argument?

Sorry, if I missed the point!:slight_smile:

Quasi

15

Do you have a cite for the fact that in Aramaic the word for brother would typically be used mean many different relationships, such as cousin, etc., rather than something more explicit such as “my uncle’s son”, etc.

16

To griffin1977

The use of “brother” to signify other relationships is something I was taught. I don’t have my apologetics’ reference materials with me, so I can’t give you book and page.

The New Testament was written in Greek, but keep in mind the language that was spoken in Palestine during the time of Christ was Aramaic. The Aramaic vs Greek debates also arise when discussing the renaming of Simon to Peter.
~VOW

17

Ditto this. It’s a novel, but Yerby probably used more footnotes and had a better annotated bibliography than most popular historians writing non-fiction use.

18

Anyone knows how Ya’akov became James in English and Tiago is Spanish and Portuguese?

19

Think Othello. Iago was a transitional form. Sant’ Iago > Santiago > San Diego. (Note that Spanish also has a doublet of Jaime, pronouced homophonically with “Hymie.”)

For James, take Aram. Ya’akov > Gr. Iakovos > Latin Iacobus > Late Latin variant Iacomus > James

20

“Hymie.”

So I ruptured Dondra’s “James” all those years ago???

Y’all better not tell her I wrote that just now!!! :wink:
Quasi