If Jesus was God...

[Beastal]

Then why didn’t he know what season it was?

Mark 11: 12-13

The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs.

[Polycarp]

This is one of the all-time goofball Scripture stories that everyone has an interpretation fetched out of left field for.

The most common one is the old thing (from Jesus and several of the Epistollers) about the good deeds expected of Christians being likened to fruit – and that this was an acted-out parable about Jesus’ judgment on that which is grown and fertilized and nourished but fails to bear fruit.

I’m not saying you ought to buy that – just providing it as feedback.

[Beastal]

I see…

[Mangetout]

Interestingly, the parable that Polycarp mentions (Luke 13:6-9 -

Then he told this parable: "A man had a fig tree, planted in his vineyard, and he went to look for fruit on it, but did not find any. So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, ‘For three years now I’ve been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven’t found any. Cut it down! Why should it use up the soil?’
" ‘Sir,’ the man replied, ‘leave it alone for one more year, and I’ll dig around it and fertilize it. If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not, then cut it down.’ "

Has always puzzled me because this is not how you make a fig tree fruit; they do not respond well to feeding and produce some of the best crops on poor, rocky soil.

[Chefguy]

Perhaps he didn’t give a fig.

[Aldebaran]

To go along with the title of this thread:

If Jesus was God… How come he died.

We know the answers of Christians on that: only the “human” Jesus died and with that we have the whole Christology discussion on the plate.

But since I don’t believe that Jesus was God I don’t have a message on the Christian answer. The whole Christology issue and the historical disagreements about it among Christians(still not solved this day) are for me in fact the more proof that they believe in and defend a myth.
I certainly respect this as being a part of their religion. Yet it is not mine.

So I would ask this question:

Can God die?

Since God is uncreated and transcendent and eternal, the answer has to be no.

So if Jesus was God, he couldn’t die.

I would appreciate other people’s opinions.
Aldebaran.

[Dogface]

Lessee, Aldeberan.

How can Jesus be God if He could die? That is what you ask. I answer that–oops, you have specifically disqualified my answer *a priori[/a] (or at least how my answer might sound) and then decide you have proven your point by first refusing to hear answers that you know would contradict you.

Remarkably dishonest and shoddy attempt on your part. This is as shoddy a fraud as the “Gospel of Barnabas”.

[Liberal]

So I would ask this question:

Can God die?

Since God is uncreated and transcendent and eternal, the answer has to be no.

So if Jesus was God, he couldn’t die.

I would appreciate other people’s opinions.

All flesh is already dead. There is no life in it. There never was. Jesus teaches that man has a dual nature — his body and his spirit. The latter is his essence, and is the manifestation of God within him. Existence is necessary only to facilitate the greatest aesthetic: goodness.

What Jesus means by being born again is not born again upon a woman’s water breaking (born of water), but born again upon receiving the Holy Spirit (born of spirit). And what Jesus means by eternal life is not eternal cellular reproduction, but eternal facilitation of goodness. Sin is the obstruction of goodness; love is the facilitation of it.

[Dogface]

Well, that’s certainly hardly any orthodox or Orthodox Christian interpretation of the matter. It sounds like some sort of gnosticism.

[Aldebaran]

Dogface,

Sorry, but I can’t make anything of your answer to me.

Libertarian,

If “all flesh is already dead” how come that you are alive? You sound a bit like those people who condemn everything “of the flesh”.
Yet, you forget that God created humans as they are.
You more or less state here that God created living dead. I only have seen that in some funny movies about zombies.

And I’m sorry, but I never read anything about Jesus teaching that “all flesh is dead while being alive” and that humans have a dual nature: body and spirit. And also nothing about the “born again” riddle some of the Christians adhere to.

What do yo define as “spirit” and what as “body”?
I also never heard of any comparison of the term “born again” with natural birth. How come that you can think that a newborn baby could be considered as “born again” while he is born just naturally, for the first and unique= last time?

And if only those who are “born again” in your definition of that term “receive the Holy Spirit” then what do you consider those who aren’t “born again” Christians? They don’t have assistence of the Holy Spirit?

Your link between “eternal life and eternal facilitation of goodness” is also a very vague description, because what is “goodness” in your view? Do you mean that in the afterlife “goodness” is the essence of what I shall call “existence”, to make it simple.
To me it is impossible to define that existence or non-existence and its shpae or contenance.

I can agree that sin can be an obstruction to goodness, yet it isn’t always the case. Very good persons can commit sins, but that doesn’t influence their goodness when the sin isn’t related with it. You can also commit a sin against yourself, which doesn’t touch others and all sins are your own responsibility.

Aldebaran.

[Soup_du_jour]

From Aldebaran
If “all flesh is already dead” how come that you are alive? You sound a bit like those people who condemn everything “of the flesh”.

Libertarian isn’t comprised of flesh alone, (correct me if I’m wrong, Lib.)

An house needs bricks and mortar to be a house. A pile of bricks doesn’t cut it, nor does a blob of mortar. It’s the same with people. We need both flesh and spirit to be human. That’s the dual nature of man.

[Dogface]

Aldeberan specifically disqualifies the Christian answer to his question and then claims that his question (while disqualifying the Christian answer) “proves” that Jesus is not God.
In other words, Aldeberan is engaging in intellectual fraud. So very typical of his ilk.

[Liberal]

Aldebaran

If “all flesh is already dead” how come that you are alive? You sound a bit like those people who condemn everything “of the flesh”.
Yet, you forget that God created humans as they are.
You more or less state here that God created living dead. I only have seen that in some funny movies about zombies.

Soup summed it up very well. Man the animal is merely a vessel for man the spirit. I don’t condemn the flesh; I merely recognize it as morally trivial. As Jesus teaches, “the flesh counts for nothing, but the spirit is everything”.

And I’m sorry, but I never read anything about Jesus teaching that “all flesh is dead while being alive” and that humans have a dual nature: body and spirit. And also nothing about the “born again” riddle some of the Christians adhere to.

A man is quite bold who speaks of matters about which he is ignorant. Perhaps you might study the teachings of Jesus, and then get back to me.

What do yo define as “spirit” and what as “body”?
I also never heard of any comparison of the term “born again” with natural birth. How come that you can think that a newborn baby could be considered as “born again” while he is born just naturally, for the first and unique= last time?

The spirit is the non-material essence of man; i.e., that aspect of man which is created in the image and likeness of God. Nicodemus asked the same question of Jesus that you ask of me, and I believe that His answer is as good as any that I might give — “How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb to be born!” Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.”

And if only those who are “born again” in your definition of that term “receive the Holy Spirit” then what do you consider those who aren’t “born again” Christians? They don’t have assistence of the Holy Spirit?

The Holy Spirit is God Himself. How can one be one with God when one will not be one with Him?

Your link between “eternal life and eternal facilitation of goodness” is also a very vague description, because what is “goodness” in your view? Do you mean that in the afterlife “goodness” is the essence of what I shall call “existence”, to make it simple.
To me it is impossible to define that existence or non-existence and its shpae or contenance.

(Moral) goodness is defined as that aesthetic which is most valued by God. Goodness is therefore God’s own nature. And God is, by definition, necessary existence (in the modal logic sense).

I can agree that sin can be an obstruction to goodness, yet it isn’t always the case. Very good persons can commit sins, but that doesn’t influence their goodness when the sin isn’t related with it. You can also commit a sin against yourself, which doesn’t touch others and all sins are your own responsibility.

Nothing is or is not a sin without context. The purpose of the universe is to serve as a mis-en-scene, providing a context for our moral journey. Since God is Love, and is therefore the agency by which goodness is facilitated, then sin is necessarily that which obstructs goodness. You speak of matters like good and evil as though they were trivial things, but as Jesus said, He did not come down the ages to rule an anthill for a day. Think less linearly.