But I think you’ll find that very few Jews subscribe to these beliefs.
I’ve always thought it was interesting that Christians call their teaching the gospel, i.e., “good news.” I always wonder how Paul managed to spin that.
PAUL: Behold, my brothers and sisters, I bring you GOOD NEWS in the name of the one God who created all that is!
JEWS and PAGANS: Good news, eh? Ok, let’s hear it!
PAUL: Yes, my children! GOOD NEWS! You see, God loves you and wants you to live with him forever. Why, you don’t HAVE to suffer the eternal torment that God has prepared for you in lake of fire! For God has sent his only begot–
JEWS and PAGANS: Wait, God has prepared a lake of fire for me? I could suffer ETERNAL TORMENT?!? God wants to torture me forever?!?!
PAUL: Well, there is some bad news…
That is basically the answer.
The further question is “what does one individual get out of being Jewish?” and I believe the basic answer to that is “satisfaction from serving a particular notion of honour”. There isn’t any sort of physical or spiritual reward for being a Jew, as the religion is clear that “righteous” non-Jews are fully equal to Jews, whether an afterlife exists or not.
Buh? My shul uses the Greek scriptures all the time to talk about early Jewish practice. They’re pretty great first-hand sources of how people were practising religion at the time and place they talk about.
What does it mean, “Buh”?
Thanks, I am surprised.
Well, it’s interesting that a shul would be discussing first-century religious beliefs.
Reminds me of my “Catholic lessons”. As a non-Catholic to-be-married to a Catholic woman, I was required to attend one-on-one lessions in Catholicism with the priest - at first I was dreading these, but when I actually went, all we did was sit around and talk about ancient heresies, on which he was a fascinating and knowledgable authority - I learned little about modern Catholicism, and much about the Cathars and Bogomils - I was looking forward to those lessons by the end!
We never did this, in my experience. Sounds fascinating.
There are two forms of “after-life” that many Jews believe in. The most traditional is a Messianic Era (as I mentioned above, peace on earth, lions playing mah-johngg with lambs, swords beaten into plowshears*, etc) at which time the dead will be revived. This presumably means with physical bodies: the idea is that the (existing) world is perfected, mankind being God’s partner in achieving this. An Orthodox rabbi once put it to me as follows: “If God can create life from a mass of biological glop, He can certainly revive it again after deep sleep.”
The other view of after-life is a purely spiritual one, presumably not waiting for a messianic era, and presumably disconnected with life on earth.
However, as others have said, in Judaism, “reward” and “punishment” after death are not the motivation for being kind and charitable &c on earth. The motivation for doing good on earth is simply for its own sake, and from the sense of obligation/duty towards God (for those Jews who believe in God.)
I have been wondering something for a while now, and I think this thread is the right place to ask. It is not really about an afterlife, but it is related.
In some threads that I have read Jewish dopers have said that being a chosen people does not mean they are anything special, or will get any sort of reward out it, it simply means that they are required to follow a lot of rules and laws that gentiles don’t. Tell me what’s wrong with this analogy:
First, some company finally decides to hire me.
One day my boss comes up to me.
Boss, “I would like you to do more tasks and work longer hours.”
Me, “Great. I assume this comes with a promotion and pay raise?”
Boss, “No.”
Me, “But when when a higher job opens up I’ll be at the top of the list right?”
Boss, “If you agree to this, then you won’t get a reward now, or in the future, you’ll just be doing it because I chose you do it.”
By the way, this isn’t a criticism. I am just curious if I understand what it means to be chosen.
Nobody, that’s pretty much it.
All of humanity is required to follow the Seven Laws Of Noah.
Jews are required to follow six hundred and thirteen laws.
There’s a lot of additional responsibility with no additional benefits.
TriPolar – is that where the Dead Sea came from?
Actually, more than a few will say you cannot be saved by works – that it is only by faith in Jesus that will get you to Heaven. Your more hardcore fundies will definitely tell you this.
(But there are so many Protestant denominations out there that they cannot be generalized. A lot DO believe what you said above, but there’s no way to speak for all Protestants.)
Some Jews do believe in an afterlife. I do. The Jewish faith is not a faith of doctrines and beliefs. There is no creed or catechism. Jews believe a variety of things.
With Christianity, it is your beliefs that define you as a Christian, e.g., that Jesus is the Son of God and your Savior. Not so with Judaism.
As for what is the motivation for doing good if you don’t believe in an afterlife: you do the right thing because it IS the right thing. No other motivation is necessary.
Most of us, regardless of religion or lack thereof try to do what’s right simply because it is right. I personally try to be a good person because it’s the right thing to do. I don’t keep from harming people or property because I expect a reward for it. I try to be polite, make donations to charities, and be a kind, helpful person without expecting any sort of reward.
Doc Cathode:
Well that would have been a dumb covenant to make, wouldn’t it?
The “additional benefits” are a special closeness of one’s soul to G-d, and, on a national level, special blessing in all thing earthly as well when, on a national level, we are obedient to him.
Thank you all enormously, the ability to listen, discuss and comprehend the beliefs of others is ‘above rubies’.
It gladdens my heart that this subject, and it’s potentially divisive sub-text, has been treated with respect, a little humour and incisive comment. Very welcome.
Peter
The Abrahamic covenant is indeed for a national (or ethnic) benefit - to make of Abraham a “great nation” and to bless them, and all the peoples of the earth through them (Genesis 12: 1-3). There is nothing expressly stated about any individual, personal benefit. If benefit there be, it is more implied than stated.
In summary, the duties in Judaism are individual, but the benefits are national and ethnic (and indeed inter-national and multi-ethnic, given that Genesis 12:3 states in translation that “… in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed”.
That’s why I think that the “benefits” one gets are mostly those of justified pride - in upholding the covenant, presumably, one is doing good to one’s people and to all people of the earth. A good Noahide is just as “good” as a good Jew (in Judaism), but does not have this added benefit.
In contrast, there is a more direct individual and personal “benefit” promised by most forms of Christianity. As far as I know, a good non-Christian is not “saved” in the same way as a good Christian, in Christianity.
The issue is not the motivation for “doing good”, but rather, for “doing good” in a specific and particular manner: by conforming with the ritual observances of Judaism.
Judaism is perhaps unique in that, in Judaism itself, there is an express recognition that non-Jews can “do good” in ways that do not involve obeying Jewish observances or beliefs, so long as they conform to the Noahide covenant (i.e., the laws binding on Noah, who was a “good man” but not a Jew).
A “Noahide” (that is, a non-Jew who observes the Noahide covenant - whether knowingly or not) is equally as “good” as an observant Jew, according to Jewish beliefs … so, the question remains: why be a Jew?
Indeed, that’s a good question. I’m a Jew because I was born a Jew, as were my parents before me. Whenever she heard that someone had converted to Judaism, my mother would say something like, “What, are they crazy? Why would anyone be Jewish if they didn’t have to be?”
Very unlike some other religions.
Isn’t it? Gladdens the heart.
The short answer is you’re Jewish “because you’re born Jewish.”
The long answer for converts (like me) is that I wanted to belong to the tribe. I love the Jewish culture and practices. Being Jewish is Very Me. But I had many born-Jews react the same way as in the quote above. As a convert, I’m perhaps in a better position to appreciate the Jewish worldview, having come to it late in life, than those who were raised in it and possibly endured some unpleasantness or ostracism because of it. I’m too old to be ostracized. Or to care.
Jews do not proselytize because (unlike Christians) they don’t believe they have anything special that you need (such as the “Good News”). You are fine just as you are and don’t need to be Jewish. So they would absolutely answer the question: “Why be Jewish?” with “No reason whatsoever.”