It depends on what you are trying to accomplish. Assuming you intend to participate in your own thread, please let us know.
New Mexico, Arizona, Florida, Louisiana… would like to sit at the table too
That worked well for Spain re. immigrants from Latin America; it’s not working so well for African and Middle Eastern origins, but these come from places where often the step of getting them the information on how to enter legally is already very, very difficult.
I agree that attacking the issue at its origin, either through information or aid, is much better than deterrence at the border.
My very general opposition to doing ANYTHING expensive at the southern border, is that it’s illogical.
Building a wall, or setting up high cost observation and interdiction forces, ignores the rest of the reason why there is a problem.
I fix STUFF for a living, and I know from doing that since forever, that if you only deal with ONE symptom, the over all problems will remain, and usually get worse.
Biggest thing being ignored in most discussions like this: how hard it already is on the people who cross, to get here. People are willing to go through the danger and expense for reasons. Those reasons are what have to be addressed, not just slap a patch over the border, which is all that this Great Wall of Trumpishness would be.
The American economy is trying to force wages down as the primary solution for business expansion. That’s the main problem. And I’m not saying that offering higher wages is the real fix, I’m pointing out that businesses all looking to hire the cheapest workers they can, and their eagerness to hire ANYONE non questions asked, are what gives the people down there the incentive to go through what they already do, in order to cross.
The main reason why the Republican Party in particular keeps pointing south and yelling about illegal immigrants, isn’t because we need a wall. They do it because that distracts everyone from realizing that their fifty year long effort to “fix” the economy by eliminating employee rights, eliminating all employee benefits (such as paid health care), and lower everyone’s wages is what the real core Republican Economic Concept is based on.
The Democrats harp on foreigners taking jobs for a similar reason, only they aren’t as organized as the GOP is about it, so at least half of them vaguely think it has something to do with civil rights, so they get confused.
There’s simply no good reason for a wall – it’s a political gambit. You can’t even support it as a public works project, as it’s something that the public generally doesn’t even use and thus provides no lasting economic value.
Stepped up enforcement of immigration laws is really all that is needed. Obama was actually doing that, but Trump has taken it a notch higher, and unlike Obama, created an atmosphere in which undocumented immigrants feel unwelcome. You can find fault with Trump’s tactics, but there’s no doubting the fact that he’s been successful so far in reducing the flow of immigrants over the border.
The way to address this problem is the same way they should be addressing the drug problem, at the demand side. Start sending people who hire undocumented workers to jail and the demand for those workers drops off. The supply will naturally follow. The economic benefits to the workers are so great that catching one of them simply produces a replacement.
I would suggest killer robots, but I admit some bias since this would be good for my research program into killer robots.
Oh yes. That was by no means an exhaustive list.
Post. Username. x20 C-c-c-combo !
Why, all those sanctuary cities, of course. Why else would they be sanctuary cities?
My guess is the MS 13 on Long Island. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/28/nyregion/jeff-sessions-ms-13-gang-long-island.html
Maybe they should set up stings at the day labor spots to arrest anyone attempting to hire a day laborer, kind of like they do with people who solicit prostitutes.
This wall stuff is silly. Every person in my family who came here from Mexico came illegally and they all paid around 2400 US dollars to get a coyote and pay the bribes. The wall doesn’t help when the people manning it are so quick to take that money. (Don’t worry I’m not “harboring EElegals”. They’re all back in Mexico now. Thanks Obama.)
Or we could recognize that illegal immigration was already going down and invest in something useful for the citizens of our country.
I’ve heard estimates of between $20 billion and $35 billion for this wall(with ghod knows how much more for maintenance and staffing), and I think a question that has to be asked is: Even if this wall is effective, is it actually cost effective? Is $20-30 billion dollars of net harm being done by those who cross our border to the south by land(which is certainly not the only way to gain access)?
I would love to see a CBA on different options, but thus far I have been unable to find one.
I have a question for you, being the only person I know of that has relatives who came illegally, where did they get the money for the coyote and to pay the bribes? I’ll make a guess and say the first person helped the second and so on, but where did the first person get the money?
I actually did answer the question - what’s already there at the border is exactly perfect, even if it’s a rusting old three-foot chain-link fence that only serves to leak rust into the nearest city’s water table, because nothing else we could physically do at the border would be cost effective. Any money you would consider spending would be spend on other projects, possibly including targeted police/FBI agents to round up people who are ACTUALLY a problem, which is a class that I don’t consider to include border jumpers at the border.
If you’re actually concerned about border jumpers, you’d spend the billions on a large task force that clandestinely identifies illegals, trails them to their workplace, and then fines the living hell out of their employers for hiring illegals. Sure, this might destroy the agriculture sector, but it would definitely reduce the appeal of border jumping if we eliminated jobs for border jumpers. Oh, and then after doing all that the organization can politely deport the now-unemployed border jumpers before they become poor(er) and desperate and start doing things we all regret.
As you might have gathered from my comment about destroying the agriculture sector, I think spending money on such a task force would do more harm than good - the time and money would be better spent going after drug and gun smugglers. But I’m willing to allow for the possibility that things could be improved by destroying the culture that allows employers to exploit illegal immigrants, so if that’s something we want to do, go ahead.
Just, don’t build a wall. That’s just stupid. In fact, it’s basically a bad joke - which inspires the other jokes in this thread. A giant moat full of rubber duckies might be incredibly stupid, but I put forth that it’s no stupider than the wall.
Thank you! May I add stiff penalties for those who employ workers who are here illegally? As well as stiffer penalties for providing false documents to anyone at all.
Of course Perry’s opposed to it. He supports the Trans Texas Corridor.
Nothing. Borders are a crime against humanity.
Israel guards their wall … the US doesn’t (at least not very well) … hire more border agents in the answer … wall or no wall … stop that cheap imitation honey coming across the border from Canadian maple trees …
Any US citizen who knowingly employs an illegal worker gets a financial punishment, and then is deported with the worker.
Oops, no, you can’t deport U.S. citizens.
Fines, yes. Imprisonment, yes. Exiling? Not permitted.