If not gun control, then what?

[artemis]

@DSeid

1. Maybe we should be celebrating what is going right. I’ve pointed this out in several threads by now but it seems to fall on deaf ears: violent crime is way down since the peak in the early 90s.

Cheer yourself; my ears heard your message loud and clear.

@DSeid

1. 2. Do a better job keeping legally acquired guns from getting into the hands of those who have no legal right to have them. One chart I have seen states that largest source of weapons used in crimes is from family and friends … and I suspect many of those were “borrowed” without the family or friends knowledge secondary to lax storage. Education about that can help some even without new laws, And yes, spend some energy cracking down more on straw man purchases and corrupt dealers who ignore extant laws.

Someone on one of these threads cam up with the perfect catch-phrase for such a campaign: “Safe guns live in gun safes.”

And one reason I won’t grumble about getting rid of the personal sale exemption and requiring background checks on ALL firearms sales is that it will make strawman purchases that much harder. That’s what it’s going to take to choke off the supply of guns flowing into the hands of known felons and others (like 16 year old gangbangers) who aren’t legally allowed to own them.

@DSeid

1. 3. As noted elsewhere, do a better job preventing the root causes of suicide, the area of gun deaths that most notably have not decreased. I believe that doing that will also decrease the mass murder events as well.

Please, can we elect you President?

[BrainGlutton]

@DSeid

1. Maybe we should be celebrating what is going right. I’ve pointed this out in several threads by now but it seems to fall on deaf ears: violent crime is way down since the peak in the early 90s.

That is because of more effective law-enforcement and stricter sentencing, I believe. The price we pay for it is the world’s largest incarcerated population relative to the general population. Too high a price, IMO.

[artemis]

@BrainGlutton

That is because of more effective law-enforcement and stricter sentencing, I believe. The price we pay for it is the world’s largest incarcerated population relative to the general population. Too high a price, IMO.

Not too high if we’re incarcerating the right people. Why SHOULDN’T we incarcerate violent felons? Those are the very people we should be locking up (and for a long, long time). Our problem is that we also incarcerate large numbers of nonviolent criminals, at great expense to no gain. Those folks could be dealt with in other ways than jail.

[BrainGlutton]

@DSeid

3. As noted elsewhere, do a better job preventing the root causes of suicide, the area of gun deaths that most notably have not decreased. I believe that doing that will also decrease the mass murder events as well.

@artemis

Please, can we elect you President?

Say yes or we’ll commit suicide!

[DSeid]

Totally agree. Legalize marijuana and decriminalize many other drugs. But violent felons? Yes catch them and keep them off the streets.

I would dispute however your confidence that the explanation for the decrease in violent crime is more in jail long term, BG. Note this in New York:

As Crime Rate Drops, New York’s Jail Population Falls to Lowest Level in 24 Years …

Of note New York recently had their first ever recorded day without a violent crime in the entire city. With historic lows in jail.

And then there is the fact that teens are just plain less stupid than they have been in the past:

Teens are waiting longer before becoming sexually active.

Overall, in the 20-year period from 1988 through 2006–2010, the percentage of teenaged females who were sexually experienced declined significantly (from 51% in 1988 to 43% in 2006–2010). This decline has been gradual and steady over these years … For males, the lack of significant change in sexual experience from 2002 through 2006–2010 is a departure from a past trend of large and statistically significant declines in sexual experience prior to 2002. It declined 5 percentage points between 1988 (60%) and 1995 (55%), and 9 percentage points between 1995 and 2002 (46%).

The recent drop in teen pregnancy rates is even more dramatic.

In 2011, a total of 329,797 babies were born to women aged 15–19 years, for a live birth rate of 31.3 per 1,000 women in this age group.1 This is a record low for U.S. teens in this age group, and a drop of 8% from 2010. Birth rates fell 11% for women aged 15–17 years, and 7% for women aged 18–19 years. While reasons for the declines are not clear, teens seem to be less sexually active, and more of those who are sexually active seem to be using birth control than in previous years.2

Fewer are driving drunk.

The number of teens who drive after drinking has dropped by more than half — 54% — since 1991, according to new data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

I could go on. For whatever reason teens seem to be exhibiting better impulse control than they used too, across the board, and violent crime fits that trend. (Other than on the suicide impulse anyway.)

As to a Presidential run. Being Jewish may or may not be an insurmountable barrier today, but there is no way this country is ready to elect someone under 5 foot 6!

[artemis]

@BrainGlutton

Say yes or we’ll commit suicide!

And that’s not a bluff! Remember, I have a gun!

[artemis]

@DSeid

As to a Presidential run. Being Jewish may or may not be an insurmountable barrier today, but there is no way this country is ready to elect someone under 5 foot 6!

We’ll give you some platform shoes to wear for the debates. No one will ever know.

[DSeid]

But can I run on that platform?

[BrainGlutton]

@DSeid

And then there is the fact that teens are just plain less stupid than they have been in the past:

Teens are waiting longer before becoming sexually active. The recent drop in teen pregnancy rates is even more dramatic.Fewer are driving drunk.I could go on. For whatever reason teens seem to be exhibiting better impulse control than they used too, across the board, and violent crime fits that trend. (Other than on the suicide impulse anyway.)

Hm. Makes one want to reconsider the (nonfalsifiable, pseudoscientific) Strauss-Howe generational theory. (In which Millennials, born 1982-2004, are a “Hero” generation and Homelanders, born after 2005, are an “Artist” generation – both types tend to be better behaved than Prophets (Boomers) or Nomads (GenXers).)

[Airman_Doors_USAF]

@BrainGlutton

Several have mentioned the War on Drugs, but that only goes back to the 1980s. Violent crime in America has been a serious, unusual-for-the-First-World problem for far longer than that.

Surely you’re joking. Drugs have been an issue for the last century, alcohol for even longer than that. What, you think that “Just Say No” came out of the ether, it was manufactured out of whole cloth? You think the Controlled Substances Act wasn’t addressing a perceived longstanding problem? Hell, the National Firearms Act of 1934 was created specifically as a response to Prohibition-related crime!

This is why these debates are pointless. You know that you’re saying something completely incorrect, yet you say it anyway.

[JXJohns]

@artemis

…And one reason I won’t grumble about getting rid of the personal sale exemption and requiring background checks on ALL firearms sales is that it will make strawman purchases that much harder…

Strawman purchases occur because of background checks. The intended owner of the gun wont pass a BG check so they have someone else buy it for them. I’m not exactly opposed to a wider set of transactions that require BG checks where they are not required today, but lets be sure to remember what the change will and wont do.

[rat_avatar]

@BrainGlutton

Hm. Makes one want to reconsider the (nonfalsifiable, pseudoscientific) Strauss-Howe generational theory. (In which Millennials, born 1982-2004, are a “Hero” generation and Homelanders, born after 2005, are an “Artist” generation – both types tend to be better behaved than Prophets (Boomers) or Nomads (GenXers).)

Or you could believe in the liberalization of sex education, improved access to information about sex and birth control.

[dba_Fred]

@Czarcasm

Would that be the gun culture exemplified by one of our former Vice Presidents?

Maybe this former Vice President?

(Teddy became one of our former Vice Presidents when ascended he to the presidency 1901.)

"The great body of our citizens shoot less as times goes on. We should encourage rifle practice among schoolboys, and indeed among all classes, as well as in the military services by every means in our power. Thus, and not otherwise, may we be able to assist in preserving peace in the world… The first step – in the direction of preparation to avert war if possible, and to be fit for war if it should come – is to teach men to shoot!”
Theodore Roosevelt

[HurricaneDitka]

@JXJohns

Strawman purchases …

They’re called “STRAW purchases”. You know you’ve spent too much time here when …

[JXJohns]

@HurricaneDitka

They’re called “STRAW purchases”. You know you’ve spent too much time here when …

My bad. I know better too. True, too much time here. LOL