From this post
Only if those people had the most excellent training might I feel safer. Might.
Are you talking about the good guys or the bad guys? I lived in Manhattan from 1991 - 2000 and always assumed there were people with concealed weapons (licensed or not) on the trains.
I don’t feel safe where people are not allowed to carry concealed firearms unless there’s armed security to protect me (like in an airport) in lieu of good guys with guns. I assume the criminals are just going to ignore those silly signs and even be attracted to those places because they know there won’t be anyone to shoot back.
So what exactly do you envision if Shall Issue permit carry was allowed on the NYC subways?
It’s been 10 years since I’ve been on a NYC subway. But when I was I felt safer being armed because I knew there were probably some criminally armed people riding as well. I don’t carry because I’m worried about a law abiding person carrying.
Every time a state legalized concealed carry there is a faction of the population that proclaims the sky is falling. And nothing ever happens. But those people rarely admit they were wrong.
“The sky is falling” is an untestable claim, but constitutional carry states certainly do have a statistically higher gun mortality than ones that have not adopted this policy.
As to the OP of thread, no I don’t feel particularly concerned knowing concealed carry is going on around me, I actually can recognize probably 90% of people carrying concealed, and the ones good enough to make it so I can’t notice it are probably even less of a concern.
Like heck. In the 90’s and beyond when more and more states adopted concealed carry laws there were massive cries about how there would be blood in the streets, a return to the wild west, people gunning down others over fender benders and parking disputes, cops getting shot by permit holders. It’s bad enough to not admit that none of this materialized, but to deny such claims were made is even more absurd.
I’m curious how many respondents live, work, or otherwise spend significant amount of time in NYC.
In 20+ years of living and working in and around NYC I can’t say I’ve ever felt particularly “unsafe” (at least not compared to anywhere else I’ve been). Nor can I recall a situation where I’ve been like “man I really wish I had a gun with me”.
Unless you live in a high crime neighborhood, it strikes me as a little weird to be so worried about crime that you feel like you need to carry a gun around all the time.
They would have a comprehensive background check and have done some sort of training. Those are the normal requirements to get a CCW, and the SCOTUS ruling has made clear those are acceptable.
The Rand study I published shows no extra danger from CCW holders (but no extra safety for others, either) .
The Rand study says different. Unless you are only talking about those few states where you don’t need a permit, with background checks, etc?
I am against issuing a CCW without at least a solid background check.
Are you drawing a distinction between (permit) concealed carry and Constitutional carry ?
I’m much less concerned about the permit carry ‘customer’ than I am about the Constitutional carry customer. Given your occupation (and trying to ignore your side hustle) – sincerely – aren’t you ?
Just watching a lot of Fox News will also do it.
You appear to not know what “constitutional carry” means. Constitutional carry has passed in around 25ish states. Not “a few.”
Do you have a cite for this? Sounds pretty hyperbolic.
IMHO - I’m a white-ish guy, at least unless I have a heavy tan, and would probably feel overall, less safe with carry on a NYC subway (assuming a shall-issue permit status, but not unlimited carry requirement), but not because of the good guy vs bad guy issues. I’d worry that some 8-10 year old in mom’s purse might trigger an accidental discharge.
IF I was a POC, my feelings would likely tip towards more safe, based on some of the hate crime based violence, but I’d still be worried about defending myself and then being attacked by the cops after.
But no matter what, I’m still going to be very worried about ANYONE including cops using most weapons about a subway - close quarters, often tightly packed is a nightmare of accidental overpenetration and missed rounds going into the uninvolved.
No. In fact, I find requiring a permit or license to carry to be a violation of the Second Amendment.
And in many places the requirement is ridiculous. For instance, in my state you need a license to conceal and you have to be 21 to get it, but one can open carry a handgun at 18 and no license is needed. Why on Earth should someone need training and a license just to cover up something they can already carry without the license and training?
And a person intent on doing something sinister with a firearm is not going to be concerned about getting a license or permit to carry it. And they aren’t going to obey “no gun” signs.
Justice Brett Kavanaugh disagrees with you in his most recent opinion on the 2nd Amendment.
This seems to suggest your opinion is neither mainstream or particularly well established.
I was there. I read the opinion pieces in the newspapers, heard the editorials on the six o’clock news, read the letters to the editors, heard the blathering from the Brady bunch. Every time a state passed concealed carry there were significant numbers acting like murder had just been legalized.
So no, you have no evidence to support your bullshit claim.
Thanks for being honest about it.
Interesting. Because half the states in the union are constitutional carry where no license or permit are needed. And there are more to come. Could be up to 40 states by 2025. Sounds pretty mainstream to me.
Not living and working, but frequently visiting for work or personal reasons reasons. Same here, feeling no more endangered than in any other major urban center’s transit. Heck, I don’t feel particularly endangered at a bus stop in Baltimore.
Can’t imagine feeling less safe “after”. The place still has a ways to go to descend back into c. 1980.
Besides I must assume the gentleman shuffling in a fur coat and Uggs in the middle of summer yelling about how George Soros is sending assasin spiders through his TV is not getting a permit and already sold his gun for drugs long ago.