Do Wahhabists use the Koran and the Hadith to justify their violent and oppressive actions? Can they point directly to religious text to justify their actions?
You just described every violent religious group (including violent Christians) in history (substituting the appropriate religious text). That’s what violent religious fanatics do, whatever their religion. Violent Muslims are far from unique in this regard.
Really?
What passage does a Christian use when he kills an abortion doctor to justify his actions?
When is the last time a Christian beheaded someone and posted the video on the internet? I think the answer to that question would be never, right?
When was the last time a christian killed an “infidel” for going on FOX news and insulting Jesus/the church? I think the answer to that question would be never, right?
Genesis 9:6 - “Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made mankind.”
Numbers 35:33 - “'Do not pollute the land where you are. Bloodshed pollutes the land, and atonement cannot be made for the land on which blood has been shed, except by the blood of the one who shed it.”
So claimed Paul Hill, anyway.
??? Why not? Even Christians can’t agree on the nature of their religion.
1- That’s from the Old testament
2- It still doesn’t say it’s ok to kill someone, not really
3- There are passages from the OT that say that, but in this case you can’t apply it to abortion doctors
the point is if they are disagreeing then there is - something - to disagree about. Violent proclamations. That - is - what they are disagreeing about. (Muslims I mean)
(Christians generally tend to disagree about doctoral issues, not whether or not to behead someone or stone someone to death)
Which is still part of the Bible last I checked.
shrug Tell it to Paul Hill ( would be quite a feat if you could ). I don’t agree either. But then I’m not a religious whackadoo that murders abortion providers. You asked what passages an abortion-doctor-killing Christian might cite and I gave a couple of examples of passages that an abortion-doctor-killing Christian did cite. Never said he made a good argument. He was…wait for it…
…a WHACKADOO.
Seriously?
I mean, really?
Jesus is the number one figure in Christianity. He is the one with the direct word of God. The corresponding figure in Islam is Mohammed. Jesus never said to kill anyone, for any reason. In fact, his core message was the OPPOSITE. Forgiveness, mercy, compassion. While Mohammed may or may not have talked about forgiveness mercy and compassion, I assume he did, Mohammed also called for and employed violence.
There is a DRASTIC difference between the two figures, what they had to say about violence. The point is, what does a direct reading of the text call for, not some whackaddo interpretation of an obscure passage from a secondary religious figure of the faith.
Of course, since I have said no such thing, it appears that you are more interested in “scoring points,” (based on odd “interpretations” of my posts), than in paying attention.
You want to look at Islam as a monolith when it is no such thing. I have already noted that religion plays a role in the violence. Specifically, the Wahhabist movement has taken a specific interpretation of the Salafist sect and given its own interpretations to Islam. From there, the creators of ISIS have taken some version of Wahhabism and added things that are directly prohibited in the Qu’ran and Hadiths, merged with an ahistorical view of the first Caliphate, and gone off on their own power trip. I am willing to state that each of these groups are part of Islam. In my very first post to this thread I pointed out that
then went on to close with
I am not going to play No True Muslim. However, I will also not make silly claims about “Islam” that only applies to particular movements and sects within it and your attempt to misstate what I have actually posted does neither your argument nor this discussion any good.
Since I have never said that religion plays no part in the violence, your accusation is dumb.
Yeah, seriously. Did you see me making any comparisons between faiths in my post? Hint: I wasn’t debating anything.
You asked a factual question, I answered it factually. End of story.
Sorry. Marcion was kicked out of Christianity for trying to drop the Old Testament. Some scholars have postied that we would not even have a New Testament if it were not Marcion’s attempt, (ca 150), to drop the OT from Christianity. You display ignorance with this claim.
Yes it does, really.
Since a Chritian has already done that, this argument, (as usual), fails.
Of course you are not going to. You are a religious apologist and whatever violence is called for by the text you are going to ignore. Whatever actual deaths from violence perpetuated by believers, you are going to ignore.
Sunni Muslim terrorists committed more than 70% (8,886) of the 12,533 terrorist murders in 2011. Note that the figure of 8,886 only covers the deaths caused by Sunni (i.e. orthodox) Muslim terrorists.
This is from an Islamic source: Wikiislam
Check out the stats for, Violence against civilian targets in order to defend Islam can be justified
These are not tenets that conservative Christians show much devotion to. In fact, the only words of Jesus they pay any attention to is how to get into Heaven with the least amount of altruism possible. Their guide for this world is the Old Testament, with its “you shalt” and “shalt nots” that can be used as a bludgeon to judge others with.
Well if you are satisfied with your answer then there is no more left to say on the topic
1- Yes, you are right, based upon the OT you can justify, tangentially, killing an abortion doctor
2- But Christ never calls for this
3- Mohammed - does - call for the deaths of unbelievers
This is a significant difference. To deny so is, as you say, “scoring points”.
What???
Then what the hell have you been pounding on and on about for the past week???
Dude, seriously, what the ever-loving fuck?
You asked what passages Christian nutballs use to justify attacking or killing abortion providers. You were given a factual, verifiable answer. An appropriate response would be gratitude, IMO.
But yanno, there are other verses they use, as well. And yes, those might be from the Old Testament, and not the alleged words of the Christ. So. The fuck. What?
The point is that people who do violence in the name of Christianity use their holy book to justify it. Can you at least accept that? A little?
.
This is actually a very serious point, the point being, specifically, what ardent reverent believers do based upon the words of their god/prophet. Thus far, Christians have killed 8 abortion doctors in the whole history of that movement. Radical Muslims regularly kill 8 or more people on an almost daily basis. Daily. This is a PROFOUND difference. What ardent reverent believers do based upon the words of their god/prophet.
To even try to argue otherwise is ABSURD.
Sunni Muslim terrorists committed more than 70% (8,886) of the 12,533 terrorist murders in 2011. Note that the figure of 8,886 only covers the deaths caused by Sunni (i.e. orthodox) Muslim terrorists.
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