I’m sorry, are you under the misapprehension that a handful of cherry-picked quotes and a number you either pulled out of your arse or, more likely, pulled from one of them impartial websites you read about Islam that tell you that e.g. 9:5 is veeeeery violent (and therefore is no doubt bogus regardless of the use you make of it, as I expect further examination of each of those 532 passages would yield similar dedramatizing context) constitutes “fact or substance” ?
Evil mon cher, evil!
implied even.
If it were 7 or 12 or even 23 examples you might be able to get away with the “context” argument, but, not when the number gets up to 532.
Even implied!!!1 Evil!!!1!!1!!!
No, slavery, theft, murder, genocide, nothing is implied about those being evil. They are entirely evil and nothing but. Mohammed practiced all of them on a regular basis. Maybe you should quit making sarcastic and rude remarks about me and actually take a look at the person you have venerated as a “great man of peace”.
532 is the meaning of life.
I am now defining. it.
OK, two things. Again. Very slowly, from the top.
a) how was that number reached ? Which quotes are those, and are they as terribly damning as the 9:5 you keep trying to sell as a smoking gun, even though you were patiently, painstakingly walked through the process of actually understanding what it actually means ?
If, as I suspect, it’s a bullshit tally computed from quotes cherry picked out of their context and simply for their use of “violent” language, then it’s not a useful number. It would, in fact, be deceitful propaganda with a deliberate agenda.
b) 532 is not more or less meaningful a number than 7, or 12, or 23 in the abstract. 532 out of 600 would be a lot. 532 out of 1,000 would be a majority. 532 out of 5000 would be of marginal import, and not a primary focus. 532 out of 600,000 would be a detail.
Do you get *that *argument now, at least ? Please say yes, I don’t know how to state this very basic concept a third way.
c) This entire line of argument of yours Doesn’t. Even. Matter. Because contrary to your bullheaded assertion, religions and religious practices are not defined solely from their primary text.
Actually if there is any thing in this absurd waste of the electrical energy that this discussion is that is of a utility, it is this here.
our robert’s strange religious logic we can conclude is not changeable.
It might be possible to educate in the simple mathematical ratios and understanding the relative comparison of this - I can not say we should hope for understanding of the statistical analysises - so to not have a magical idea about numbers.
8%
532 passages (an Ayat) of 6,236 is 8.53 percent.
Are all of these ayats the same size, maybe a hundred forty characters per 'al-tweet? If one* ayat *says its OK to smack your neighbor if he pisses you off and is ten words or so, and the next ayat runs on for 50 pages about mercy and tolerance, are they equivalent?
Hardly an election-winning ratio, then.
(and, again, this is IF we accept your 532 a priori and without a second thought. Which, why on Earth should anybody ?!)
Well, that depends, doesn’t it?
Quran (3:56) - “As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help.”
Quran (3:151) - “Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority”
Quran (8:67) - “It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he had made a great slaughter in the land…”
Quran (9:123) - “O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness.”
Quran (48:29) - “Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves”
1- Are we talking about a bandit/murderer/slaver who turned into a powerful warlord and kept a diary and mellowed out at the end of his life and decided the “enlightened” thing to do was to treat people well - if - they conceded to your rule
2- Are we talking about the spiritual leader of a religion of peace, as Muslims believe* the Quran was verbally revealed by God to Muhammad through the angel Gabriel (Jibril),[4][5] gradually over a period of approximately 23 years* this man, this thief, this murderer, this slave taking war making warlord, who is speaking here… Allah or Mohammed???
I think you and I both agree, Mohammed was talking to himself in that cave. Maybe he had a mental illness and was not aware he was hallucinating. But to call him a an of peace, a man, is a bit of a stretch, and to call him a man of god the prophet of peace, is a ludicrous stretch which goes well beyond the bounds of reasonableness.
In other words, 14000 years ago maybe Mohammed did not know murder theft genocide and slavery was wrong, but, god certainly would, wouldn’t he? How is this a “religion of peace”?
2:62 (and 5:69) - “Those who believe (in the Qur’an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.”
2:190 - “Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.”
2:256 - “Let there be no compulsion in religion.”
5:82 - “You will certainly find the nearest in friendship to those who believe (to be) those who say: We are Christians; this is because there are priests and monks among them and because they do not behave proudly.”
6:61 - “But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things).”
60:7-8 - “It may be that Allah will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For Allah has power (over all things); And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice.”
…
Nice
And since you do not deny that Mohammed a violent man, I ask you again:
How would you define:
rape, murder, genocide and slavery.
In moral terms? I’m pretty sure they are all evil. I am egarly awaiting your explanation for how they are not…
See post #1179. The whole “religion of peace” is a straw man made up by an islamophobe.
Nobody ever claimed Islam was especially peaceful.
So what have you spent the last month arguing with me about then???
“not especially peaceful” is not synonymous with “horribly evil and inherently the essence of horrid”, you see.
ETA : that might be where you get confused. See, you have me pegged for an “apologist” (in your own words) who’s super pumped for Islam and thinks it just the bee’s knees. Well, I don’t. But even though I’m not a supporter of Islam doesn’t mean I’ll stand idly by when it’s being attacked on stupid, bigoted or ignorant grounds.
oh
i consider murder, genocide, slavery, and misogyny to be horribly evil and inherently the essence of horrid
i guess you don’t