If someone is considering getting a black lab puppy what do they need to know?

Factual Questions
41

WAG: There’s a chance they can get the collar caught on something, slip a leg through it and get a fracture, etc. IMO, this is only an issue if your collar doesn’t fit properly (not enough slack in a properly fitted collar to slip a leg through) or you’re not supervising your dog (if you’re paying attention, you can take the collar off anything it snags before any harm is done.)

One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is that labs and other oily-coated dogs tend to smell. Not as bad as hounds, but they still smell. They need to be washed with some regularity. I’d say that’s probably where the estimated grooming fee of $400/year came from–getting a dog that size washed at a vet or groomer will run you close to $30 a pop, and they generally need to be washed once a month or so. Washing a lab at home in a standard tub is a real pain in the butt for a variety of reasons, so a fair number of people opt to have it professionally done.

Gaspode, do you really mean to say that you think neutering a dog who then gets attacked is more of a problem than the intact dogs attacking another dog? Maybe I’m just misunderstanding what you’re saying, but around here there is no place whatsoever for a dog-aggressive animal in competition.

42

The collar should be removed to prevent injury. With one of leather or some such, it’s not a very big problem, but it also depends on the breed. My dog is very much aware that he must be nicer to smaller dogs, since he grew up with a little ball of twine that weighs about 4 lbs. However, he weighs 70 lbs and will get even heavier the next six months. If a paw gets caught on the collar, there’s a risk that the smaller dog gets a neck injury, even though it was all friendly play.
With metallic, chain link types, it’s very easy for the other dog to get caught with a tooth and break it.

CrazyCatLady: I’m gonna back up a little and be a bit more clear. Well behaved male dags, properly bred and raised, have a code when fighting. And they do fight, believe me. Especially when they’re at the age my dog is. Puberty is rushing around in the system and they are trying to establish rank within the pack. A dog the age mine is, 14 months, will try to challenge an older male in order to move up the scale. This is normal behaviour, and should be watched, so it doesn’t go to far. But 99% of the time, it’s just play fighting, and when one dog gives up and exposes the neck or chest, it’s over. A sound dog will then back off.

The problem with neutered dogs, the way I see it, is that they’re are grown, but smell like puppies, i.e. sex less. This confuses the other males and can result in a more serious fight.

Mind you, I’m not advocating real dog fights in any way. They’re barbaric and quite a big problem around here, where many (too) young people are geting pit bulls and mixes with pit bulls, because they want a dog to help them gain ‘respect’. A couple of weeks ago, I saw two female pit bulls, around a year old, get into a quite serious fight. The right thing to do, of course, is grab the dog by the neck and pull them apart, firmly telling the dog who’s in charge. But the owners were afraid of their own dogs and kept trying to lash them with the leashes. How in the world are you suppose to have a well behaved dog, if you’re afraid of it?

The rule around here is that it’s always, always, the owner of the female who’s responsible. As you say, it can be hard to control the male dog if a female that smells so invitingly is nearby. By putting the responsibility firmly with the owner of the female, it’s just natural that they keep their dogs away from males. Everyone I know who has a female will walk them in areas where there are no un-leashed males around, when the dog’s in heat.

I know it’s not really my fight and that there’s a huge difference between pet culture in Europe and the US. But we’re fighting ignorance here and by spreading the word how things could be done, maybe life with dogs can become better in the US, with time. It used to be the same way here, in the 50’s.
One important factor is that there are more buyers than dogs, so breeders can be picky about who they are going to sell a puppy to. Prices are high too. A pure bred dog will be hard to find for less than $1.000. All in all, it works towards making both sellers and buyers more responsible.

[/soap box mode]

43

Well, in the US it is impossible… let me repeat impossible to ever know if an unleashed or leashed dog will be in a area where you are walking your dog. So “keeping them away from each other” simply IS NOT an option. Maybe in your more “sophisticated” country every single dog owner is a fully responsible adult with complete and utter control over everything their dog does. Not so in the real world.

I’m curious as to how owners of females know where all other dog owners will be at all times.

:confused: :confused: :confused:

My life with my dog is peachy, thanks.

Okay, enough hijacking. The Gaspode doesn’t think Americans know how to handle pets responsibly, and we obviously disagree wholeheartedly.
The more I think about it, the more I think a first time dog owner needs an older dog, or a less rambunctious breed than a lab.

So, what’s the verdict, astro? Still want a pup?

44

I guess I deserve the snarkiness.
Doesn’t change facts though.
There are quite a few expat Americans here. Maybe I should make them come and weigh in.
Bottom line is. I know what it’s like in the US. From first hand experience and from a number of Americans. And it’s not like that here. Get over it- You might be the super power. That doesn’t mean you know it all. In this field, you’re way behind.

And to answer your question: The city has a very clear ordinance about where dogs can be let of the leash and where not. My friends, with female dogs, know where the un-leashed dogs are. It’s a few designated areas. So they don’t walk their dogs there for about eight weeks a year. The rest of the year (for each individual), it’s not a problem.

And no. I don’t think “Americans know how to handle pets responsibly”. I think the consumer society that is America leads many people to have pets as part of the consumerism. And I think that’s where the problem is.

So your life with dogs is peachy.
But on a collective level - that doesn’t seem to be the case.

45

Wow - leash laws! Hey, has anyone else in the US heard of these? They sound like a pretty cool concept. I mean, ordinances saying where dogs can be off-leash and where they must be leashed.

Something like that must only exist in Sweden, huh.

46

:eek: You’re kidding me, right? Please tell me you are kidding me. The first thing dog trainers are taught is how to break up a dog fight and this ain’t it. Break up a dog fight by grabbing the offending dog(s) by the neck?

ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR BLOOMING MIND?

Dogs in a fight are in fight/flight/survival mode. If you want to get your sorry ass bitten, go for the neck, Gaspode. Get your hand right where the biting end of the dog is, and see how that works for you. No, really, do. Please.

THE RIGHT THING TO DO, OF COURSE, is to have two people working to break the fight - both grabbing the fighting dogs by their back legs (like a wheelbarrow) and yanking back. If you’re alone, wrap a leash around the back end/legs of one dog, drag it away, tie it to a fence, then pull the OTHER dog away by the back legs and take it somewhere else.

This way, you’re far enough away from, oh, say, the part of the dog that actually could do serious damage to you (Teeth?). ANYONE following your advice here for breaking up fights puts himself or herself at great risk of injury. Trust me, I’ve seen it happen…

I know you’re getting at the whole “dominance” thing - showing the dog who is boss - well, in this backwards part of the world, we have discovered that alpha rolling dogs actually can lead to serious dog bites - usually facial, requiring plastic surgery - especially in fear-biting animals or in animals who have just been involved in a fight. You may want to consult Ed Frawley’s site on just that topic (this man has produced some of the greatest police working dogs in the world). Oh, and we also discovered that if you shove your hand where the biting part of the animal is, during a fight, you’ll get bitten.

Now - I’m going to go hit the hay with my three oppressed canines.

Folks - whatever you hear - spay and neuter your pets unless you are interested in breeding them, or have a contract with their breeder that requires you to keep them intact. Why run the risks of fighting, marking territory, accidental matings and all that jazz?

47

For a full description of how to break up a dog fight, and pictures of what happens when you don’t, check out this link:

http://www.leerburg.com/dogfight.htm

48

Can’t believe I missed this on the first go.

Sorry, Gaspode, but you are wrong. However, what you’re saying usually appears in long lists of “Myths” about dog neutering and spaying.

Males with their family jewels are MORE LIKELY TO FIGHT, especially EACH OTHER than they are to bother with neutered males. It’s a testosterone thing. Being faced with a dog without nuts isn’t gonna throw them off and make them pounce tne neutered dog.

FACTS:

Neutering a dog does not affect its ability to protect its home and family. This is why we neuter quite a few police dogs. Doggy personalities are formed by environment and genetics, not sex hormones.

Your pet has no notion of sexual identity. If you schnip it, its personality WILL NOT CHANGE. If you had an aggressive dog, he will likely remain aggressive. If he was submissive, or soft, he will remain that way. THE ONLY CHANGES PEOPLE NOTICE IS A DECREASE IN THE MALE DOG’S TENDENCY TO FIGHT. In some cases, it CAN take the edge off of an aggressive dog - less testosterone, less of a tendency to want to brawl.

A neutered dog does not tend to wander as much, and is less likely to “run away from home” lookin’ for that pretty girl who smells so nice. I remember one trainer once telling a Jack Russel Terrier owner that the MAIN CAUSE of doggy roadkill was “those little dangling things between their legs.”

What sparks fights usually is a matter of dominance - and dogs at play in a dog park are more likely to have altercations because the “pack” isn’t a fixed entity, it’s constantly changing. My altered (neutered) male Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever does NOT get picked on at dog parks by neutered males because he is altered. He does, occasionally, get into arguments with others over some basic doggy manners - and he usually wins. He’s always been dominant, and has a very strong pack-order sense.

Anyway. I think you’re way off base when it comes to issues of spay/neuter. I guess we can, in the end, agree to disagree…

49

I fourth or fifth, or tenth, or whatever the warning against pet shops. I used to be a Great Dane breeder, and had Danes for 20 years.

Lots of good advice in this thread, and I agree with Elenfair’s comments on pretty much everything.

I don’t have much to add. Several people have recommended obedience training for any pet dog. They’re right, but the best place to start - especially with a puppy - is the AKC’s Canine Good Citizen Program. Think of it as kindergarten for obedience school. :slight_smile:

About the shedding: Any dog weighing over 25 pounds can safely take an 8,000 IU vitamin A caplet daily (as sold at your local pharmacy in the vitamin section). This will at very least sharply curtail, and in many dogs, eliminate, shedding. To my knowledge it has been used without problems with Salukis, Danes, German Shepherds and Siberian Huskies.

Ooops! There is one exception: do not give a pregnant bitch vitamin A during the first four weeks following breeding. It has been shown to cause “neural tube defects” (Spina Bifida is the most common) in humans where excess amounts were taken during the first trimester. I, for one, would not experiment on my pups, even though it may be a significantly smaller (or even non-existent) hazard. (BTW, I have read - and been told by pharmacists - that pregnant women can safely take up to 10,000 IU of vitamin A during the first trimester.)

50

Thanks; I have never heard that before. I’ll have to get some and try it for my Labrador Shedder. :slight_smile:

51

I’m gonna try that for my pure bred American sofa-setter.
Thanks

52

To add to what has gone before, be prepared to invest in some extra feeding costs at the puppy stage. Ours came from the breeder with feeding guidelines that included minced beef with egg yolk and Weetabix with milk. I don’t doubt that there are perfectly good puppy foods which would replace this, but it was fairly expensive feeding another mouth on a similar diet to the rest of the family.

Be prepared for a lab to demonstrate its intelligence by learning the synonyms for any words you use, helping it to eavesdrop on discussions to which it is not meant to be party. Walk, stroll, promenade, excursion, perambulation and even yomp were quickly learned and understood by the yellow one. He was a regular fixture on the sponsored walk circuit (and an ace fundraiser in his own right), and a great incentive to get us out of the house on rainy days. Because there were a number of us keeping him occupied, we never had problems with chewing, although he was guilty of minor misdeeds, such as laying out a box of tissues side by side across the floor.

If you have a household that keeps very different hours, be aware that the thumping of a wagging tail and warmth of a lab greeting can wake people sleeping two floors up. Eau de damp lab with never be a fragrance hit, and carpets matching the coat of your lab of choice are a plus (although I wish I’d known about the shedding vitamins a few years back).

All of these things aside, he was one of the best decisions I’ve ever made, and I can’t wait to move and have space for another.

53

Ah, yes. They can even learn to spell. Molly the Wonder Dog knows what O-U-T and W-A-L-K mean. When she hears them, she runs to the door and looks at her leash hanging on the hook.

54

That’s a best case scenario. Also possible is a pregnant female that is unable to vaginally deliver her five or six unwanted puppies. In my area, 75% of dogs in this situation wind up as euthanasias due to the owners’ inability/reluctance to pay for a C-section.

55

Actually, in recent years, off leash areas have become common place in NZ and Australia - everywhere else, dogs much be on the leash. You can be fined for having your dog off the leash in your own street.

56

Okay, Ino, you were being sarcastic weren’t you - I’ve got it now.

57

No. That’s what I was taught at the puppy obedience class arranged by the Swedish Kennel Club. And no, Since I’m holding the neck, it can’t bite me.

Mommy dog corrects here puppies by taking them by the neck, not the ear (which meany people seem to think is the right way. There are xones wher you can stroke your dog to calm it down, and others you use to excite them.

It’s true that the wheel barrow method works to, but that’s not what we’re taught around here.

lno - sarcasm doesn’t an answer make.