Wouldn’t instinct cause you to eat to stop the hunger pains or dry mouth and throat? While I think the will to survive is tied to emotions, I think that avoiding pain would be an instinct, and I could be wrong, but I think instincts are not tied to emotions. Think of all the primitive creatures with no emotions who still instinctively eat (and drink if necessary).
I was going to mention that. I never watched Star Trek, but the one scene I remember while flipping through the channels was him saying something along the lines of “I wish I had emotions.” News flash buddy: you do.
Which is why I said “something equally non-logical like hunger and thirst”. Sensation may not be an emotion, but it isn’t logic either.
I misunderstood what you were saying, but I get it now.
Hmm. I’m thinking of “instinct” and “the will to survive” as essentially the same thing: you’re not thinking, so emotions don’t come into play; you’re just doing what you have to do to keep yourself alive. I think even emotionless people would argue that they have a right to keep themselves alive, as long as there’s enough food/water/shelter/whatever available for everyone. If not, they’d have to come up with some kind of endlessly ongoing population-wide ranking to see who is most valuable. Are little kids who can’t contribute anything yet but are the future of the population more valuable than older folks who know how to do stuff but who have already reproduced?
We had a Star Trek thread a long time ago and somebody said that Vulcans would never get to space because they have no curiosity: who cares what’s over the next hill or the next continent, let alone Out There? Is curiosity an emotion? Is boredom an emotion?
Okay, I’m just rambling now. 
Nitpick - Vulcans have emotions. They undergo intensive mental control training to suppress them.
When I was younger somebody told me I was anal retentive. I don’t think it’s true, but if it is, I’ve got nothing on some of you guys.
And they developed interstellar travel centuries before Surak was even born.
Serenity.
Contrary to what Vulcans would have you think, emotions are logical.
There wouldn’t be anything illogical about it. It just would be incompatible with self-preservation. But logic alone isn’t enough to tell you that self-preservation is desirable. You’d need that “programmed in” somehow (like Asimov’s Third Law), although such an instinct or pre-programmed value wouldn’t necessarily count as an emotion.
I agree with this. And I suspect it’s because it’s practically impossible for us viewers/readers to be interested in or care about a character who truly doesn’t have any desires or emotions.
As mentioned earlier, self preservation would probably have to be programmed in, but eating and drinking may be instinctual. Actually, thinking of something I saw years ago, getting out of harms way may possibly be instinctual too.
There was this test where they put glass over two tables with a gap in-between (the tables, not the glass). They then put a baby on a table. It crawled to the gap, but refused to go any further.
True. Although sometimes it’s the bad guys who are supposed to be emotionless, the audience probably relates better if they have some emotion too.
Emotions are largely designed to propel us towards or away from certain stimuli and environments. I’m sure there are other ways to do that, but I don’t know if a voluntary system would work. Children born w/o the ability to feel pain end up doing tons of physical damage to themselves since the impulse to avoid damage isn’t there. People high on alcohol or PCP who lose some of their ability to feel fear or shame do things they would not do when sober.
So I don’t think a truly voluntary system would work anymore than asking people who can’t feel physical pain to avoid trauma or asking someone with autism to avoid shame would work. Like emotions, it would have to be an involuntary system. But nonetheless it would be more humane than our emotions.
Hmm. Are you saying that animals have emotions? Because they certainly recognize patterns, and they make decision as well.
Btw- I’m not pointing that out to refute your statements. Personally I believe animals DO have some rudamentary “emotions”. Which is not to say I think animals are cognitively aware.
If we had no emotions, we’d all be a lot happier–uh, wait a moment…
I wonder whether part of the problem is that emotions are like pain: they don’t shut up when the message is given. They just need to be refined a bit. Why should I be hostage to depression that hamstrings my ability to cope, when a bit of discomfort in the right location would actually push me along much more efficiently?
Of course animals have emotions.
Animals also are cognitively aware and I don’t consider there to be anything “rudimentary” about their emotions.
[hijack & minirant]
I’ve heard people deny that animals can THINK, that animals have EMOTIONS, and even that animals FEEL THINGS (in the sense of sensations, such as pain) in the same sense that we do. These have to rank among the oddest assertions that I hear from multiple people. It’s as if they’re saying “animals aren’t real”.
Do I think there’s a significant and substantial difference between us and (other) animals? Of course. We think in languaged terms. We can see a hairline split in a layer of stone and recognize from experience that it’s the edge of a fossil, Permian from the strata in which it is embedded, that it will take another 36 hours to pursue sufficiently to get a sense of whether it is a meaningful specimen, which in turn might cast more light on what we know of the plants that grew in large quantities on this long-gone river some 250 million years ago. Our ability to comprehend and make use of such a complicated thought process is most directly dependent on our possession of language, without which we would not be able to build up such an incredibly complex understanding of the world against which to fit new data input.
But we have no monopoly on sensation, emotion, or cognition.
They have the same brain structures that we feel emotions with, they act like they feel emotions, so it’s reasonable to assume that they do.
Of course animals feel emotions. There’s a big difference in intelligence between humans and animals, but how could anybody doubt that they don’t have emotions?
A historically common idea unfortunately. It seems to come from a variety of sources. Of course there’s the religious types who insist that animals don’t have souls and therefore lack emotions. There’s the people who insist on trying to greatly exaggerate the gap between humans and animals, apparently out of humanocentrism. There’s the “scientific” types who go overboard against the common tendency to anthropomorphize things and instead deny nonhumans any human qualities. There’s the people who go too far in the opposite direction in reaction against the extreme animal rights types.