If The USA Had Quit Vietnam in 1968?

[BrainGlutton]

@Captain Amazing

He made comments saying that not voting for Chavez was a counterrevolutionary act, and also that a former employee was fired for treason to Chavez. How is that not telling them they’ll be fired if they don’t vote for Chavez? Just because he doesn’t use the words “Vote like this or you’ll be fired?”

Because he does not even suggest the security of the secret ballot has been or will be compromised.

[Mr.Moto]

@BrainGlutton

Because he does not even suggest the security of the secret ballot has been or will be compromised.

“You have a nice family. It sure would be a shame if something were to happen to them.”

[BrainGlutton]

@Mr. Moto

“You have a nice family. It sure would be a shame if something were to happen to them.”

More like 1896, when (so I read in a Time-Life history of the period) many factory owners told their workers not to bother showing up for work after election day if William Jennings Bryan should win. Not nice, but they were not saying, “If you vote for Bryan I’ll know it and I’ll fire you.”

[jshore]

@Mr. Moto

See, this is what gets me. While realpolitick might make it necessary to throw in with a bastard from time to time, something about the mindset of the left causes them to fall in love with those bastards and just excuse all of their evil ways.

For all of Pinochet’s faults, nobody is printing his face on T-shirts, are they?

What a weird comparison! Is putting someone’s face on a t-shirt worse than overthrowing an elected government to put a tyrant into power?!?!

However much that is true (and I think they know plenty) you certainly seem to be in denial about the reeducation camps, the persecution of ethnic Chinese, and the boat people crisis following 1975.

In your post you said these people “gave up on Vietnam.” That’s a rather simplistic way of looking at these events, isn’t it?

I think there is a fundamental problem with using what happened once the North Vietnamese actually took control as a justification for not getting out of there sooner or for having gone in there in the first place. I understand the argument is something like “See, these were bad guys so we were right to oppose them.” However, in the end, they were victorious anyway. So, what did we accomplish? We killed a lot of Vietnamese, a lot fewer but still not insignificant number of Americans, and in the end didn’t accomplish our goals anyway.

And, I think it may well be worse than that. Although it is never possible to say for sure what might have happened had we done something different, I think there are good reasons to believe that our actions in Vietnam and Cambodia strengthened the hands of the most radical and crazy elements of those who we were fighting against and thus made the outcome worse than it otherwise might have been.

@ralph124c

…if the 800$ billion spent on the Vietnam War , had been spent on giving the Vietnamese a wester lifestyle, every resident of Vietnam would have been a millionaire!

Well, not exactly. The population of Vietnam in 1965 was 35 million, which along with your 800$ billion figure works out to about $23,000 per person. So, no, not a millionaire by any means, but still a decent sum of money for someone in that part of the world.

[BrainGlutton]

@jshore

And, I think it may well be worse than that. Although it is never possible to say for sure what might have happened had we done something different, I think there are good reasons to believe that our actions in Vietnam and Cambodia strengthened the hands of the most radical and crazy elements of those who we were fighting against and thus made the outcome worse than it otherwise might have been.

Well, we’ve certainly seen that same process play out in Iraq and we ain’t even left yet.

[BrainGlutton]

I’m reminded of a Doonesbury strip from '73 or '74: B.D., in Vietnam, is hanging out with his V.C. phriend, Phred the Terrorist, talking about the impending peace settlement:

PHRED: . . . But, you’re getting the same terms you would have got in '68! Why didn’t you just pull out then?!

B.D.: Are you kidding?! And cause a blood bath?!

PHRED: sigh

[Bryan_Ekers]

The dominoes would have fallen like a house of cards. Checkmate.