then how come apes are still living? If apes evolved into humans, then how come apes are still around. If they changed to humans, there wouldnt be any left.
does this rule out evolution?
It’s the same reason that my parents are still around, even though I decended from them. Or more accurately, my sister and cousins, since the common ancestor of humans and other apes (yes, other: Humans are apes, too) is now extinct.
My family came from Europe. Why are there still Europeans? Does this disprove immigration?
In my opinion this only proves that evolution isn’t necessarily a question of IMPROVEMENT, as it has come to be understood in the popular whatsit. It is merely a question of change, many stupid/wrong/accidental, some highly advantageous. This is an interesting point to remember when we notice our modern political systems evolving. Evolution it may be: good, it may not.
I believe in evolution today. Tomorrow I probably won’t.
Hey, speaking of evolutionary craziness… a coupla days ago in my dad’s old bookcase I found an old book called MORE THAN HUMAN. It was written by Theodore Sturgeon, published about 1951. It’s kinda like the X-Men but it’s really thoughtfully and sweetly written, if a little experimental in structure. I liked it, though. Read it from cover to cover. Anyone heard of it?
Ross writes:
> Anyone heard of it?
Yes, it’s quite famous. It’s well known to anyone reasonably well read in science fiction. I agree that it’s excellent.
You’re just discovering More than Human? I hope you’re young enough to justify that gap in your reading.
nick112, I was surprised that Talk Origins does not have a response to this question (not that there were any problems with Dave’s answer in the link Darwin’s Finch supplied), but you may find the site useful, in any event.
Yes Nick you single handedly disproved evolution. Congrats !No scientist ever bothered to think of that before while all along the answer was right under their noses. I smell a nobel prize for you in the near future.
Geez, TitoBenito, he was just asking a question. Admittedly, it may have been a little naive to think that the fact that apes are still around rules out evolution. However, on a website dedicated to eliminating ignorance I think it is a little out of line to mock someone who honestly is seeking to reduce his own.
sorry work makes me overly sarcastic. I kind of misread nicks original statement. So I do apologize for coming off that way. Sorry Nick.
[blather]
*Yeah, I was kinda young when it happened. I’m older than most of our board folk, who were probably all born human. I was three when my family evolved. It was pretty cool. Livin’ in our climate, we were kinda glad to shed the hair. I do sorta miss the opposable big toe, but the trade off (clothes and stuff) has largely been worth it. I remember there was this one old ape up the street who just wasn’t coming along; it took an intervention to bring him around…
By the time I was five, you couldn’t find an ape in town.*
[/blather]
Seriously, Nick, think of it all as a tree, where branches that beget new branches continue growing themselves, independently of what their offshoot branch is doing. For humans to evolve does not necessitate the demise of their forbearers.
God DAMNIT! We have the same ancestors as simians, they are NOT our ancestors. We did NOT evolve from gorillas.
Why do we keep getting these people in here asking how come there are still apes when this kind of thing is taught in kindergarten???
— G. Raven
I am never surprised by people’s general ignorance of science, especially biology, in this country (I’m assuming that nick112 is from the US too). However, you got to give him points for asking the question.
FTR, I didn’t know how to answer this question until I took biology in college. High school science really sucked at teach evolutionary biology. At least at my school.
True, I was too harsh on the guy.
The schools REALLY need to start making an effort to teach people what evolutionary theory is really about, and I’m pretty sure teaching creationism isn’t going to clear this issue up for many people. The whole “I ain’t no dang monkeybwoj!” attitude that Darwin got seems to be hard to kill off.
— G. Raven
We didn’t evolve from apes, cherub. We still are apes.
Remember, we’re only .01% different from an orangutan genetically.
Plus, probably not every individual from apes’ & humans’ common ancestor evolved into humans…just a subset of the overall population. That subset survived. Another subset led to gorillas. Another subset led toward…etc. etc. Eventually, the original common ancestor went extinct for some reason (it didn’t have to go extinct…but it did…like most species do).
Out of interest, how much genetic difference (if it’s not completely meaningless expressed as a percentage, since we don’t know in detail how most of it actually functions[sup]1[/sup]) is there between humans and, say, mice, or jellyfish, or apple trees?
[sup]1[/sup] I’ve often wondered about the validity of this percentage difference statistic, for these reasons:[list=1]
[li]sure, we’ve mapped the human genome, but have we fully mapped the genome of any of the apes to be able to make the comparison?[/li][li]Having a complete map of the human genome is a bit different from actually understanding what it means[/li][li]Hi Opal[/li][/list=1]
To everyone saying that thier family came from europe:
that is not evolution, but immigration.
The explanation using the “tree” was a good one though.
The truth is that the Modern Apes and Homo Sapiens both branched from a common ancestor that no longer exists. Evolution does not work in a straight line, it branches like a tree. We are just a branch, just as Chimps and Gorillas are on there own Branches.
The old “we came from apes” was actually used to ridicule Evolution.
“Damn you! You blew it up! Damn you all to hell!”
-Charlton Heston