If we're supposed to like these characters, why are they such tools?

What, the fact that they had a cool submarine meant they could take what they wanted? The way she probably saw it, those guys were nothing more than a bunch of grave robbers, and she didn’t owe them shit. They had no more right to the rock than anyone else.

Anyway, the diamond belonged to the ocean. That’s why it was called “the Heart of the Ocean.” Seemes pretty simple to me.

OK, so why not tell them that up front, instead of getting a free trip to the salvage site on false pretenses? She defrauded these guys.

If she wanted to drop the diamond in the ocean (essentially stealing it from the insurance company that paid for it), then she should at least have rented her own damn boat. :stuck_out_tongue:

Exactly why I found him so unsettling and demoralizing - and I think you were supposed to. The Capt. Sobol character was a vivid picture of a man drowning in his own bullshit and yet totally complacent about it - because he believed in it. He wasn’t some snarling head-case like Richard Widmark used to play. His inner turmoil was about zero, because he was the complete military tool.

No, that would be the other way around. John is dead, Jim is not.

Robinson Crusoe. After almost twenty years alone on his island, he sees a strange footprint in the sand and immediately thanks God for sending him a potential slave.

Throughout the seasons I watched, it was obvious that we were supposed to identify with Tony. Yeah, he’s a mobster but he has all these family problems and personal insecurities just like us regular schlubs… The thing is, I could never get past what a scumbag he is and actually identify with him.

Well, the fiendish plan of the makers of the Sopranos is to lull you into identifying with these guys, and then WHAM, slap you in the face with what assholes they are.

Well, maybe the diamond sank straight down and they found it anyway, for an ironic conclusion?

Damn it!

On so many levels, “damn it.”

You know, I’m no longer concerned I can’t get it straight!

Rilchiam:

Cal planted it in Jack’s pocket to frame him as a thief. Cal then carried out his frame, calling the ship’s officers to frisk Jack, whereupon the necklace was returned to Cal, its rightful owner, who put it in his coat pocket. The same coat which he then gave to Rose to keep her warm, forgetting that he had the world’s most valuable rock in it.

I did notice that after Jack and Rose had sex on what looked like cloth seats in the car, there were no stains or wet spots. Most boring sex EVER!

I was Lilo (er, without the dead parents or the alien pet or being Hawaiian) as a kid. My small legion of imaginary friends would occasionally die. My Barbies were dismembered by sharks.

I hate, hate, hate Daredevil. From the movie, at least; the one comic I ever read with him was the Elizabethan-era Marvel heroes comic, where I quite enjoyed him.

“Hello. I had a screwed up childhood and got blinded. I’m not a very competent prosecutor, but at least I beat the crap out of the guys I don’t manage to put away. I’m quite certain they’re guilty, and everyone seems to think this is okay because despite the fact that all these guys who are assaulted are people who got off after my prosecution, nobody ever investigates or arrests me. But I’ve decided that killing people is wrong, so Kingpin, who obviously deserves something bad happening to him, will just have his knees broken. I think I’ve grown as a person.”

Please.

Frodo.

He’s basically useless throughout the whole story. He’s constantly falling under some spell or getting wounded or getting kidnapped by orcs or spiders. He’s unconscious for like half the story. There’s like three times where everybody thinks he’s dead. Sam is always having to track him down and nurse him back to health or carry his ass up a mountain. Even when sam’s awake, he’s useless. He carries the ring but he can’t fight ( Even Merry and Pippen are more badass than he is), he complains all the time and he almost sandbags the entire mission by falling for Gollum’s bullshit. Then, when he finally gets to Mt. Doom, he can’t even follow through with the one freaking, simple-ass task everyone is counting on him to perform. He falls under the spell of the ring and Gollum has to bite it off his finger to get it away from him.

Then, after they all return to the Shire, Frodo gets all moody and mopey and no fun to be with and then he decides he just has to go off with the Elves to Neverland and be a buzzkill to them for all eternity.

Sam is the real hero of LOTR. He’s the only one who never gets corrupted by the ring (I know he gets tempted very briefly but the wiles of the ring are defeated by Sam’s own “hobbit-sense.” His humility and sense of self). He babysits and coddles Frodo the whole way. He does all the hard work. He keeps Frodo fed and clothed and litearlly carries him on his back at times. He always stays absolutely on mission and has absolutely no selfish motives. He’s the closest thing in the books to a character of pure good. He doesn’t even relly have an arc. He’s the same person at the end as he is at the beginning – a humble, blue collar guy with no ego, no base motives, and not even a real appreciation of his own virtues. Sam doesn’t know he’s a hero. he just thinks he’s doing his duty and that other people are heroes. That’s the very quality that makes him immune to the ring. The ring tries to play on his vanity and ego and show him a vision of himself as “Samwise the Strong, Hero of the Age,” but Sam says, “No, that’s not me. I’m just a gardener,” and believing that about himself is exactly what makes him heroic in a much more transcendent sense than just the kind of celebrity version that the ring tries to tempt him with…

I’m getting off topic and rambling. To reiterate, Frodo Baggins was a tool. They should have given Sam the ring to start with. It never would have gotten anywhere trying to corrupt him.

:: gasping in horror::

Heretic! You leave me no choice but to unleash the winged, flame-breathing, etc. monkeys!

:: reads further ::

Okay, it’s clear that you’re talking about movie-Frodo, not book-Frodo, so I can forgive your heresy. :slight_smile: Since I cannot recall the monkeys once they are unleashed, I have instead directed them to bomb Westboro Baptist with flaming poo.

Though I usually don’t even concede that the movies exist, I will answer your criticisms by pointing out that Frodo is handicapped throughout the story by the very fact that he has to carry the freaking magical tortorous ring. Whichever member of the Fellowship had todo that was going to be almost useless for any other tasks. It’s little different than if, oh, Boromir had been required to drag a 100-kilogram behind him the entire time, and the handle he was dragging it by had a temperature of 98 degrees, and he wasn’t allowed to wear gloves or accept any help. Of course he’s not going to be much use in an orc battle.

Frodo isn’t supposed to fight, and in fact the Fellowship shouldn’t really ALLOW him to fight; in fact, I think he’d be irresponsible to be in the front of any battle. The job of the other eight Walkers is to get him to Mordor. Consider the big Orc battle in Moria. As soon as its clear that there’s no avoiding it, the eight take up positions so smoothly, without any oral communication, that there’s no question that they’ve agreed on this ahead of time. The Big Folk are in front, Merry and Pippin are are next, then Sam and Frodo. They know all of them EXCEPT Frodo die, it’s a loss, not a win.

Returning to the book (because talking about the movies gives me hives) I’ll agree with thsi statement, albeit with a qualification. I don’t think LOTR as a whole as a single protagonist, though each of the six books making it up does. Frodo is the protagonist of Books I & II; Aragorn, Merry, and Pippin are the focus of III and V; IV and the first half of VI are about Sam; and the second half of VI is about the three younger hobbits.

The ring would have corrupted anyone of lesser stature than Sauron. Book Frodo has much more willpower than Samwise, who was able to return the ring after holding it for – six hours? – and still got tempted to claim it. The ring simply hadnt time to get its hooks into Sam; but Sam would have fallen long before they even to Rivendell. Frodo, I might observe, thrice attempts to relinquish it after having it in his possession for over seventeen years.

Is this just your assessment or have the makers gone on record with this?