It kills me when people think that if you TALK LOUDER, THEY’LL UNDERSTAND YOU BETTER.
Nothing to do with the OP (shoulda just pointed), but I think it’s funny.
Pure, thank you for posting what I was afraid to. I’m kind of weary of being labled a sympathy whore. (Not to imply you should be labled as one, I think you understand.)
While I do not recall people pissing on me because of my nationality, I can relate to many of the things you’ve said. Yes, no comprehention of the English language. Yes, new culture. Poor. Yes, yes, yes. My parents worked up to three jobs each. Not pleasant jobs, either. Yes, I agree, crappy life, brave people. My parents and I did learn English, and now we lead middle-class, American lives. But I remember how it was when I didn’t know the words for “hello” or “thank you”, and people took advantage of me for it, and made fun of me.
My grandparents came here a few years ago to be with their daughter and they haven’t learned to communicate well in English. They’re 70. Having to translate for them, I often get angry people-in-charge telling me stuff like “They’ve been here four years, they should have learned the language by now” or other, more hurtful pearls of wisdom. And I have to grin and bear it because I don’t want my Grandparents to know that they’re being insulted and humiliated. I know what you’re mad at, pure.
Having said that, I don’t think those kinds of things have really been said here. Aside from a few posts that I will just go ahead and gloss over, because they have added nothing to the debate, this thread is about lack of communication. No one of note is trying to make jokes anyone else’s expense, they’re just frustrated at not being able to get their point accross.
All of the posters in this thread that are working themselves up into an indignant rage need to take a step back, a large breath and freakin’ RELAX.
I haven’t said SHIT about accents. The only thing I have a LEGITIMATE beef with is people who own businesses in America that rely heavily on COMMUNICATING with customers that do not speak a WORD of English. Accent or no accent.
Opal hit it on the head when she said “I’m human. Inability to communicate with another human is frustrating.”
So to sum up:
Immigrants coming to America and working hard to create new, great lives for themselves = Great!
People taking time to learn the language of their new adopted nation = Fine!
People who do not speak a language natively speaking it with an accent = More than Acceptable!
People who put themselves into public service occupations without one of the fundamental requirements of such occupations – the ability to easily communicate with the public that they’re serving = Not a Good Idea, for either party.
Communication skills are part and parcel of positions in which you deal with the public. If you cannot communicate because of language barriers, then you need to be in another position until such time as your skills in the lingua franca improve. This shouldn’t be such an earthshattering idea. I wouldn’t move to Thailand, open a shop catering to the native Thai population and work at the front counter before I learned to speak their language. Why is it so awful to expect the same idea in reverse?
No one is saying learning the language is not a good thing. What I am saying is that demanding someone learn the language so you don’t have to point at the menu is the demand of an idiot. He could communicate perfectly well and he chose not to. that is what this thread is about. Let him go somewhere else. Nobody is forcing hiom to go there. Let him and people like him stay out if those places so that those of us who do not see that as a problem can enjoy them. I think it is a reasonable solution.
I’ll just add that as great as it is that the US is a bastion of mixed races, unless we’re all speaking the same language we’ll always have too much fear, uncertainty, and doubt. Communication is the foundation for understanding, tolerance, and living happily together.
Gawd, <b>sailor<b>, this feels like the Twilight Zone.
While I often grit my teeth at your viewpoints, right here you are making perfect sense and I have to agree with you wholeheartedly.
Spooky.
Sailor, not everyone is only holding their viewpoint to the OP. Many people here are flying off the handle at anyone who dares to suggest that someone starting a business dependent on communication with the public should learn english before starting said business. That, or have someone who can speak enough english to be able to communicate with the customers be put in that position. I’ve got no problem with pointing to menu items if the order taker speaks no english, until heaven forbid, I may just have a question about something on the item. I kid you not, some people do actually have questions when ordering food. It’s been known to happen. If the person taking the order speaks no english whatsoever, we’re not going to get very far, are we?
Not everyone is just speaking about the OP.
Thank you tlw, for bringing some perspective and common sense to the discussion.
I think it prudent to note that there is a difference between laughing AT someone and laughing at a situation. I believe, that sometimes a language barrier creates a situation that can be amusing, but I never believe the communications failure means that one person involved in the conversation has to be stupid, ignorant, or worthy of ridicule. Accents do make it difficult to communicate as well as language barriers. I am positive that some people laughed at my husband and I when we were in Europe because of our cultural flubs, language or accent. Hopefully, they were amused at the situation, not at us as people.
Anyone who judged you or your family because of a language or accent barrier is dead wrong. However, not everyone who has laughed at a situation involving a communication break down is in the same boat.
Remember the “Yumbo”?
No need to be churlish. If you know this, why don’t you also point out that the correct word for ‘dog’ in Spanish is ‘perro’?
Really, now.
“Gyro” derives from Greek guroV. That first letter, g, is a lower-case gamma. The letter gamma is pronounced like English “hard g” in some Greek words, but gamma also serves to represent other sounds in Greek. Preceding certain vowels, for instance, the gamma is pronounced like English “y”.
So the “g” in “gyro” comes from a direct transliteration of the Greek word. Someone saw gamma, then wrote “g” in English.
“Not bothering to even get a loose grasp” and “making no effort to be able to communicate” means the same as “Not understanding every word a customer may say,” it seems. Hm. There are a lot of words in English, ya know. A whole lot. And when you combine this fact with the variety of regional accents of the customers, plus the regional accent of the English teacher that that “someone” learned from, plus the rapid and sometimes garbled way that native speakers of English sometimes speak … but no, everyone that you speak to must understand every word that you say.
And this gem:
So you’ve just arrived from overseas. Your papers came in, you are overjoyed that you can leave the civil war that engulfs your homeland and go to the “land of opportunity” to make your living.
Who is going to pay your bills while you learn English?
Imagine the uproar if the government decided to subsidize ALL expenses of immigrants and refugees until they could pass an English comprehension test.
It means no such thing. Making no effort to communicate and not even having a loose grasp on the language does not equal “understanding every word”.
Where the hell did you even get that?
After thinking on it just a little more, something occurred to me.
In these instances, there must be someone associated with the business who speaks English proficiently enough to do so without needing to resort to hand gesture theater to communicate.
- Someone had to negotiate the lease or purchase of the space.
- Someone had to procure the equipment (in the case of restaurants, this can mean deciding between stoves and refrigerators with the most arcane and inscrutible differences) and manage its installation.
- Someone had to deal with the utility companies, a process which can be difficult when both the customer and the utility worker are native speakers of the exact same language.
- Someone has to ensure that the restaurant is in compliance with local health code and must deal with the health inspectors who come calling.
- Someone must procure necessary business licenses and manage local, state and federal taxes on an ongoing basis.
- Someone has to manage supplies and deal with suppliers on an ongoing basis.
And all of that is the behind the scenes stuff. None of it matters if the business fails because there are no customers or the customers stop coming back because of bad service – and having waitstaff who can’t answer basic questions or understand an order without a need to resort to hand gesture theater will, for the vast majority of people, fall into the category of “bad service” eventually.
Good god… you actually think that the only job available to people who have just arrived in America is to start their own business!!! What planet do you come from?
And the rest of what you said was equally ludicrous. No one is expecting anyone to understand “every word” :rolleyes:
I thought of that too, tlw, but figured the immigrants knew someone or had a family member already here that helped to negotiate those things. After everything was up and running they left the non-English speaking business owners to deal with actually communicating with the customers, as the pointing thing would be rather ineffective when negotiating a contract, methinks.
You would be amazed. I know people in that situation and, in fact, I know some Chinese people right now who are negotiating a lease to open their second restaurant and their grasp of English is extremely limited. They get by by asking their friends and generally by blindly advancing and sometimes making big mistakes. They have valor which I would not have. I just finished explaining a lease to a friend so she could explain it to her friend. I wonder in the end if they really understood much (and I am not even a lawyer).
What tlw said.
I mean, I actually am not angry at the counter person-I’m more angry with the person who placed them there. Why not try them in a less customer-oriented position while they pick up the language?
It’s probably not that much fun for the person working there, either.
EXACTLY!! It has to be really traumatic, in fact. Someone who doesn’t speak the language enough to take orders could still cook or bus tables or something… it has to be totally frustrating and probably humiliating for them to be in a job where they can’t communicate with the customers like that. Hell I feel really bad for them.