>> All i’m saying is [insert inane comment here, complete with italicized text]
Well, I, for one, pretty much agree with your comment although I could quibble with the italicized part. 
My parents emigrated to the US back in 1976 and moved to small-town Illinois (Geneseo, roughly 1200 people and 40 churches between them back then). As you can imagine, the Indian freaks weren’t well recieved there.
Amazingly enough, they don’t have a chip on their (collective) shoulder, and neither do their kids.
pure, would you be as… bitter if your parents had gone to, say, Germany and were expected to be able to speak German in order to function in society, or is it something about English in the US that sets people off?
As someone who has been the butt of jokes because of his weird accent, I can understand how one can grow tired of those jokes after hearing too many of them. I’m also in agreement with sailor regarding the fire extinguisher anecdote; subtract the expletives & the “dolla fotty nye” and you get Reader’s Digest material.
Yes, like a brother in law, or a good family friend, or et cetera. In denser populations people with significant language barriers will cluster. Ever hear of chinatown?
This is why people don’t always learn the generally accepted language: they don’t have to. Also, they don’t have to. And finally, they don’t need to. Ah, I see pure notes this.
I find it incredibly frustrating to deal with people that don’t have a grasp of very basic english, but I do not fault them. However, I do find it completely unfuckingrealistic that people would enter a position that required them to be in regular communication with a set of people they cannot actually communicate with. This is also why we end up with chinatowns and polish neighborhoods, etc: because a language barrier acts as a strong selective and segregative agent.
If pure is happy with people being outcasts, then that’s fine. It is a lot easier for people coming to America to learn some basic English rather than have Americans learn Polish, Russian, various dialects of Chinese, Japanese, French, Gaelic, German, Danish… shall I go on?
I guess I’m just a stupid fucking idiot, but I would never dream of even visiting a country if I couldn’t handle second-grade conversations with the locals, nevermind move there.
Why do I suspect that even if it did your position wouldn’t change a bit? I agree with a more moderate position of your fucking unrealistic hostility that if people manage to live and work here without speaking English then there is no need to be especially indignant about it, but I have to say that I do find it fucking rude as hell.
sailor, it ain’t just burger flippers, man, and this is my problem. I deal with PhDs every single day that could recognize the molecular structure of chlorpromazine but can barely pronounce something like “glass vial”, nevermind hold a conversation. This, of course, doesn’t stop them from calling me or others in the company I work for asking for help which we could provide if only there was a way to communicate. The problem is pretty large and is not just a matter of having to find a different restaraunt or cooking your own burgers. I’ve met people from India or Pakistan with several degrees in various things but they can’t speak English for shit. Are they unintelligent? Obviously not. But I think they’re pretty stupid to come to a country without the ability to hold a conversation at a child’s level. Yes.
I one day hope to see France. You can bet I won’t show up at customs without being able to handle simple sentences in French. Maybe I’m the stupid one for respecting people like that, thinking I’m the guest in their country, city, or culture.
Note my location.
I am a minority in Miami-Dade County. I am an American-born caucasian with English as my first language, who had English speaking, American-born parents. About two weeks ago I went to the drive through at Checker’s. The nice (Hispanic) girl gave me my total, $5.35, and asked me to drive up. I handed her exact change, a $5 bill, a quarter, and a dime. She looked at me and said “Five thirty five”. I said yes, that is $5.35. She did have an accent, but not very heavy, so it was clear what she was saying. She said it again, then corrected herself, “Five fourty five”. I pulled out another dime and handed it over. More confusion. She finally said “Five firty five”, which apparently was the actual retail price of the items, and we had a verbal contract. Now in this case there was a girl working the window and register who couldn’t tell me a price. She did not attempt Spanish, which I am comfortable with, nor did she say “Five five five” which would have worked. She did not show me numbers on a piece of paper, which would have worked.
I speak Spanish whenever I can while traveling in Spanish speaking countries in Latin America or Europe. It is work for me, but I do NOT expect someone in a tiny town in Guatemala to speak English. They often want to speak English with me to practice, and I will help them with words in Spanish if I can.
When I traveled throughout Asia on business, I learned at least “Thank You” in the language of every country I visited, and more than that in Mandarin and Korean. I had full technical discussions and problem solving session in China with guys who didn’t know a lick of English, and I knew how to say hello, thank you, goodbye, and bathroom. Sketches, hand motions, and a common knowledge of the equipment worked fine. My translator was no help because he didn’t know the technical terms in English, which was fine, I would have expected that.
In the United States, I speak English. Unless someone needs assistance or directions and does not speak English (we have tons of visitors from Latin America, and I do assume someone on the street lives here in the US), then I do what I can in Spanish.
Someone could live here in Miami their entire lives and never have the need to speak English.
She couldn’t talk, I can’t type. “Firty” is not what I meant to type, but “fifty”.
Gosh dangit, I attempted to post a response and the hamsters ate it.
It basically boiled down to this: pure, you’re an idiot. You’ve got some major anger management issues and I suggest you get some counseling. Calling someone a bigot for laughing at that story is absolutely ridiculous. Bigot is a very serious word and I respectfully ask you go quit using it so casually as it takes away from it’s actual intent.
And I didn’t answer your italics because it’s not an argument. Yes, I can go somewhere else. Does that make it okay? I’m not talking about deep in the heart of chinatown, you nitwit. I’m talking about resteraunts that serve people of many different cultures. I noticed you convienently ignored my ancedote about the cheese. How am I supposed to go somewhere else when my question is answered in a matter that leads me to believe I’m understood when I’m not? It’s not like they post a sign on the door that says “don’t speak English” for cryin’ out loud.
I don’t know why I’m still arguing with you, as logic and reason are obviously beyond you.
And erislover, I couldn’t agree more.
Eh, I don’t know why someone would be upset to walk into an ethnic restaurant and find staff that are less than fluent in english. Come on, that’s half the fun of going to ethnic restaurants. For instance, I always suspected that I wouldn’t like tripe. It just seemed like something that wouldn’t taste good to me. But now, thanks to a trip to chinatown and a little miscommunication I KNOW I don’t like tripe. And if I hadn’t taken that chance, I would never have learned this thing.
Do you all realize that ethnic enclaves with little english fluency are not exactly a new thing in America? My grandfather’s parents were born in the US, but they lived in a town in the midwest were everyone spoke german. They spoke german in the home, in school, read german newspapers, went to german businesses. It wasn’t until my grandfather was 5 years old (I suppose this was in the 1920s) that his parents decided that from now on only english would be spoken at home.
Sure it can be frustrating to come across someone who doesn’t speak english clearly. But lighten up! Have an adventure! The world is both larger and smaller than you imagine. What’s wrong with a little sign language, a little writing, a little pointing? Especially at an ETHNIC RESTAURANT. If you walked into a bank or a doctors office I might be more sympathetic. But a restaurant?
Less than fluent? Lemur, I don’t think that’s the issue most of us get upset over.
Sigh
Obviously people aren’t reading already existing posts before posting themselves. If they were they’d realize:
#1. No one is “demanding” people speak fluent English. Merely enough to be able to answer a question about the product they are selling.
#2. No one is talking about resterurants deep in the heart of Chinatown, or Little Italy or similar areas where 90% of the people there speak a language other than English. Obviously, speaking whatever language is predominantly spoken in that area is perfectly fine.
Please people, read the thread before you post. Sheesh!
WHOOOOOO says he is obligated? YOU are completely missing every point that has been made. No one is saying they don’t have the right to do this. People are just saying that it is frustrating and would probably be better if they put people who spoke more English in those positions. That’s all. You’re blowing this way out of proportion. It seems that for some reason you are trying to make some Big Thing out of what was wasn’t meant as one. Chill.
I can think of several jobs even just in a restaurant that don’t involve interacting with customers (like, for example… COOKING). I am not sure why you are being so limiting but it isn’t helping make your point.
Christ, pure, overreact much? Why so defensive? I thought it was a pretty funny story. And if there are more Troll stories out there, as other posters have indicated, I will be doing a Wang Ka search quite soon.
In general, accent/language stories can be funny. My old French teacher mentioned several gaffes she made when she was first learning the language, while engaged to her future husband, such as calling her mother-in-law senile. Why not treat the Korean guy story in the same vein? If a guy who considers a fire extinguisher being used on a burning car theft, then yeah, it’s a funny incident, no matter what color he is…[Zapp Brannigan]be it black, white, or Korean.[/Zapp Brannigan]
I also don’t see why you’re so utterly furious at the idea of someone wanting an English speaking cashier/waiter/etc when you’re in America. It’s not the end of the world, but SNenc and others aren’t exactly demons for this small, reasonable request, dig?
As for SNenc…I’ve never in my life heard a gyro pronounced other than the way it is spelled. I live in New York…I’ve HAD freaking gyros. I don’t think that Greek Civilization will collapse (no more than it already has anyway) if you alter your pronounciation. In that situation, I’d be wondering what you’d ordered. And I do speak English.
Oh, you’ve done it now, Zoggie, pure will come barrelling in here any minute now ranting and raving all calling you a bigot…
:rolleyes:
Just as you did to me on another thread.
Use “hacker” in a bad light and Derleth Quixote shows up.
I think you may have me confused with someone else. I don’t recall calling anyone a bigot on these boards. What the hell are you talking about? And why are you coming into this thread for the sole purpose of randomly accusing me of doing something to you in another thread? I do have email you know.
Just pointing out what a hypocrite you are, that’s all.
…without any evidence. Yawn.
I wonder how many of you have tried being a foreigner? It’s not fucking easy, okay?