If you don't understand taxes, shut the fuck up.

I am sick to death of people saying, “my small business revenues are over $250,000! Obama is going to drive me out of business!”

You’re a fucking idiot. You get taxed on your profit, not your revenue. If you made a profit of $8,000 last year, guess what? Tax cut for you!


And also to add…

Any tax increase would only apply to that portion of your PROFIT that is ABOVE $250,000. In other words, if the top tax rate increases from 36% to 39%, and you currently make $300,000, you will only pay the additional 3% in taxes on $50,000.

I need to clarify this- in some circumstances, small businesses do get taxed on their revenues. If this applies to you, *your accountant *is a fucking idiot.

I just heard that Joe the Plumber doesn’t have a license to plumb and that he owes $1,800 in back taxes. And apparently ABC news has him admitting that he wouldn’t be making over $250,000, which would make him eligible for Obama’s tax cut.


Ok, I might be slow here but I am trying to understand somthing about taxes.
We are told that under Obama if you make under 250k you will get a tax break and over 250k you will pay more in taxes.

Wouldn’t that mean to make that work out you would have to do something like lower the tax rate for every dollar made under some amount less that 250k and higher above that amount so that at 250k it comes out (about) that you are paying the same as before?

Eg. under 200k the tax rate goes down, over200k the tax rate goes up. by 250k the higher tax rate has made up for the savings you got for the tax rate under 200k?

or am I just completly lost in how the tax tiers go?


Not exactly. See here: http://alchemytoday.com/obamataxcut/

It’s not technically true that everyone under $250,000 gets a reduction.

The other thing that annoys me is that (it seems to me) the same people saying “Obama says that 95% of people will have less taxes under his system, but lots of people pay NO taxes, so how will they pay less?” are the same people who say “what does a REFUNDABLE tax credit mean?”

If they would know the answer to their second question, it would answer their first.


But, but, but John McCain spent five years as a POW.

It amazes me that ANYONE is stupid enough to buy the “Only 5% of people will pay more taxes bullshit” in this first place. It’s a bald faced lie. It’s flatly impossible. The important thing about the Joe the Plumber video is that Obama was responding in a non planned, non canned arena, and he accidentally answered the question honestly:

“I think when you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody”

No Mr. Obama, it’s not, but thank you for revealing your true thoughts, it’s nice to have what many of us have been saying finally out in the open. Be honest about it, and let the people decide. Stop trying to (trying? Hell, he’s done it) buy the election with pie in the sky promises that are impossible to keep.

“Tax cuts are for those who pay taxes! The poor making under 10K a year don’t pay taxes.” Bullshit. They pay 7 and a half percent in payroll taxes, their employers match that. They pay some percentage on most of what they spend in virtually every state in the union in sales taxes. They pay property taxes, they pay state income taxes, they pay gasoline exise taxes, they pay taxes on cigarettes, they pay taxes on damn near everything. Don’t tell me that just because some asshole comes along and prints out a graph of the federal income tax revenues broken down by income quintiles, and shows that the bottom quintile doesn’t pay Federal Income Taxes, that “poor people don’t pay taxes”. The working poor in this country have a tax burden, and it’s harder on them because the flat taxes(like payroll, gas, and sales) which they all pay, are not progressive. While it’s possible to live on 67% take home (33% total tax burden) of a 100,000 gross salary in most parts of the country it is a damn sight harder to live on 77% take home (23% total tax burden) of a 20,000 gross salary.


I think it’s better when the wealth is spread around. I don’t agree that the government is a good way to do the spreading. IIRC even most conservatives agree all boats should be lifted, they just think the free market is the tide they should be lifted with versus governmental redistribution.


Sure. Absolutely impossible to raise taxes on 5% of the population. Can’t be done. Silly idea.

It appears that you missed the clear instructions given in the thread title.

How is it flatly impossible that there could be a plan that involves only 5% of the upper income earners paying more in tax? Are you balancing this out with Obama’s promises that will have to be paid for?

Isn’t McCain’s plan that Nobody will pay more in taxes? How is this plan possible then? Is McCain not making promises that must be paid for? Will it not cost something to keep many troops in Iraq for many more years?

I’d be willing to make a bet right now that tax increases under Obama will be limited to high income earners. We could use CBO’s annual tax burden analysis as the judge of whether the tax burden goes up or down on Americans earning less than $250k.

Do we have a bet?

Somewhat of a nitpick, but Obama says, “Your taxes will not go up if you make less than 1/4 million dollars.” I noticed in the debate, he also said that “If you make less than $200K, you’ll get a tax cut.” So, according to those figures (if correct), people who earn between $200-250K will not have their tax rate changed.

Consistently and carefully worded, assuming I recall the exact quotes correctly. He’d surely get slammed otherwise.

Obama is going to cut payroll taxes, state income takes, sales taxes, gasoline excise taxes and cigarette taxes? Wow, maybe he’ll make all our farts smell like roses, too.


It IS a silly idea. If it wasn’t so scary, it’d be downright hysterical. I was amused to note that your rather strident thread title is at odd with your position in the thread, it reminds me of a kook the other day who told me “Learn the facts! Obama’s a Muslim!” To which I replied “I know the facts, no, he isn’t”.

First of all, the Wall Street Journal illustrates the rob Peter to pay Paul scam that Obama is planning with his tax plan here. Above and beyond that, however, is that his whole plan doesn’t pass the smell test when you puts together the separate parts. He proposes almost $800 billion in new spending, above and beyond the existing deficit budget that we have now. To pay for this, he promises to tax only the top 5%. The top 5% already pay over 50% of the total income taxes collected (cite), in round numbers that’s just over $500 billion (cite for total income tax revenue of $1.043 trillion). If Obama were to double the income tax on that top 5% (and we’ll completely ignore the fact that doing so wouldn’t double the tax revenue from those people, a fact that always seems to escape the tax-the-rich crowd), a task that he would find utterly impossible to do politically (Raising the tax rate to in excess of 70% for the 5%? Impossible) he STILL wouldn’t have enough revenue to pay for his giveaways. I suppose that if he were to take 100% of the income from those top 5%, it might just be possible to fund what he wants to spend. Barely. The whole “tax plan” is nothing more than election year pandering to buy the election. And it’s working. But to claim that only the top 5% will see a tax increase? Right. Pull this leg and it plays Jingle Bells.

My farts already smell like roses.

No, he’s going to alter total tax burden by offering refundable federal income tax credits that will offset some portion of the burden of other taxes for some portion of the population. Actually I believe this is happening already, just he’ll be changing the formula a bit. The idea isn’t exactly complicated.