Unfortunately, Bush’s lies cost f hell of a lot more than just Congress. It cost thousands of American lives, tens of thousands of innocent Middle Easterners lives, trillions of dollars, allies, and America’s reputation.
Obama’s cost us … more health care for poorer Americans.
Americans don’t like being lied to. Hopefully the next President figures that out. Politicians are a slow bunch, though.
adaher, aka “The Laziest Poster on the entire Straight Dope Message Board”, made this thread just to avoid having to actually back up his assertions about me. Seriously – that’s the only reason. And it’s not the first or even the second time he’s made unsupported and uncited assertions about me.
Here he says I play “political games to confuse”. I challenge him and ask for a cite here. He still doesn’t cite, but says that I said the President didn’t lie about the ACA, and says I did it in a “lawyerly” fashion (as if disagreeing on whether something was a lie is playing “political games to confuse”). I ask him to provide a specific cite for his assertions about me, and so does the moderator – the main assertion being that I play “political games to confuse”. His answer? He’ll just start a new thread to try and get me to play these supposed “political games to confuse”. And he finds a single instance in which I said the President didn’t lie about the ACA, in three words (and obviously without “political games” or “lawyerly” explanations).
And this is the thread he made because he’s the laziest man on the internet. He serially makes assertions, whether about other Dopers or about politics, without backing them up – occasionally he’ll have a cite, but the very cite often refutes his own arguments!
So here’s my contribution to the thread: adaher, you are the laziest poster on the Dope. You love to post, but you hate actually backing up your posts. You hate it so much that, rather than actually back up your posts, you’ll just make more posts to sidestep and avoid it.
This is your thing, adaher – making assertions about other posters or anything at all, refusing to back it up when challenged, and just continuing along as if you have any credibility. You don’t, though. No credibility… and all lost just because you’re too damn lazy to back up your arguments.
I’ll go out on a limb and say that Americans don’t like dying, wasting trillions of dollars on an unnecessary war, killing innocents, and losing the moral high ground more than they don’t like being lied to. YMMV.
They do not. They not only punished Bush for it, they punished McCain too.
Whether or not Hillary gets punished for Obama’s lies will depend on how many new ones he tells between now and Nov. 2016 and their consequences. Remember, he’s still got time to get us into a quagmire in Iraq and Syria. He did pledge to not commit ground troops.
Short version: Iiandyii takes the 5th.
“I’ve heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking, normal children who wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines”
“Time for some traffic problems on the Beltway…”
“Got it.”
There’s a huge difference in consequences between just telling a lie(something all politicians do), and lying to sell a policy that has real consequences for Americans. The administration knew the state of public opinion: the only way to pass health care reform was for Americans who liked their insurance to not see any changes. So they made that promise, even though the text of the law required such changes, and even though conservative commentators pointed out again and again that that law would require such changes. ANd you know how the administration responded? By calling it “fearmongering”.
They lied, they further smeared their opponents on the issue, and then when the administration had an opportunity to make good on their promise, they only went halfway. They could have changed the grandfathering regulations at any time to grandfather ALL plans regardless of what they consisted of. It was the easiest thing to do.
No, I’m just tired of you making unsupported, uncited assertions about me. It’s cowardly and pathetic. If you want to say stuff about me, then back it up. Quit being so fucking lazy.
I disagree. He simply demonstarted that several people were under the false belief that they liked their health insurance.
No they’re not. 39% for and 52% against is not most people being pretty happy.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html
Do you make your wife show you the marriage certificate when she asserts that you are married?
If you disagree that you said something, that’s one thing. Making me prove something you know is true is trolling.
On the bright side, I can now say the President lied about his promise anytime I want and iiandyii won’t respond anymore.
I disagree that I play “political games to confuse”. I disagree that I ever believed that Obama’s popularity doesn’t matter. I disagree that I’m “sure that “lacking confidence in government” cannot possibly be happening”.
That’s three assertions that you made about my beliefs that you failed to back up. You said those things, and you provided nothing to support your assertions. Incredibly lazy, cowardly, and obnoxious posting.
I agreed not to do it again. On the current dispute however, the issue isn’t what you said, which I assume we don’t dispute, it’s the interpretation of what you said. It wasn’t unreasonable to simply ask you to repost, or even reconsider, your argument. But if you don’t want to, fine. I can make an argument forever that you won’t respond to. You’ve essentially ceded the point by abstaining. You won the rules battle, I won the debate.
Bullshit. Why would I want to play your game, when you’ve been making things up about me without backing it up? No, it’s not reasonable to make up something about me and then ask me to support your own invention. No thank you. Pathetic, cowardly, obnoxious, and most of all lazy. Just incredibly, massively, horrendously fucking lazy.
There is that, and after previous discussions and what I have seen it is clear to me that the insurance companies did drop the ball, this was the one time that insurers should had become more proactive and move people to proper plans and absorb some of the costs on the first few years at least; but it is hard for a leopard to change their spots and so the usual practice of expecting clients to look for the better plans on their own when the usual insurance changes came did bite a few of us. However, finding better coverage available in the exchanges by the few affected is an item that should not be ignored.
Because insurers were/are the ones getting a better deal out of all this the insurance companies should had been more willing to change their lousy plans, not just dispose of them.
That is what they were doing, they just didn’t do it in as politically savvy a way as the administration would have liked. Instead of saying, “We cancelled your plan, here are some more expensive options”, they were supposed to say, “Great news! For the low price of only $89 more per month, we’ve upgraded your plan!”
He’s most likely referring to the users of the exchange.
What that tells me is that it is indeed mostly propaganda from the right and too high expectations not done from the left the reasons why people outside the exchanges are not seeing a benefit.
