Fotheringay-Phipps, this is a disgusting thread. You bloody-well know that some undefined portion of the time, black people in America are treated in ways that white people are not. Why the fuck do you find it necessary to look at a specific instance of this and “doubt” it? What the fuck will a few white people telling you, “yeah, someone once asked me for something in a grocery store” do? Somehow prove that what the Obamas claim is false?
That IMHO thread is pathetic, the fact that you think it’s going to make any sort of meaningful point is pathetic, and you sir are pathetic.
From the article linked:
The assertion is that these things are the norm. The story that, gee, lillywhite me was once asked to get a fucking box of noodles off the top shelf at the Piggly-Wiggly for someone has no bearing on that assertion, and so does nothing but serve to illustrate how little the teller of that story believes that the expressions of racism above exist.
So, in F-P’s mind maybe the valet thing is believable, but the rest he doubts.
Sorry, but:
Is pathetic. Why doubt that their stories are true? How does my personal experience as a white person being confused for “the help” have any bearing on the veracity of what the Obamas have said?
Err… Ah, I’d say that’s the least charitable way to take Fotheringay-Phipps’ post. I got the impression he was more interested in facilitating a discussion rather than ‘‘disproving’’ the Obamas with the anecdotes of white people. By ‘‘I’m not sure’’ I read an implied, ‘‘But I’m starting this thread so we can talk about it.’’
I disagree with his skepticism, and agree with you that the Obamas should be taken at their word, but I think he’s sincerely interested in the experiences of others.
Maybe I need to dial it back a bit, so I do apologize to Fotheringay-Phipps (and anyone else) for my tone . . . I’ve been uncharacteristically punchy on the boards lately. I blame it on lack of sun and holiday season stress.
That said, using a black person’s discussion about experienced racism as a springboard for talking about similar (yet not) experiences that some white people may have is clueless at best. To preface it with an opinion that the (white) jury is still out on whether or not the black person’s experience is as he experienced it, with no real way to address that question . . . it stretches credulity to interpret that any way other than, “I don’t believe this kind of racism exists, and/or I don’t believe this happened to the people who say it happened to them because I just think they’re lying.”
iiandyiiii . . . that’s kind of my point. Starting an OP about perceived racism, casting doubt on it, and then asking white people for their similar experiences does nothing other than serve as a spring board for that sort of post. The OP implies (intentionally or not) that when a black person is mistaken for help, it is not because of his/her skin color.
He didn’t ask “white people” for their experiences. He asked everyone on this MB.
He explicitly said it happens to black people more than white people. You even quoted him saying that. Why are you continuing to misrepresent what was actually written with something you think was written, but which as not?
White denial of the experiences of people of color is a real problem, but maybe threads like the one started by FP can be a springboard for that difficult conservation. So, ultimately, a net positive?
[QUOTE=Orwell]
So the fuck what? These are supposed to be valid examples of racism? I guess if you spend a lot of time thinking about it and looking through that filter. To a hammer, everything looks like a friggin’ nail.
I was asked if I was a valet a couple of years ago while waiting at an unmanned valet stand. I guess I was the victim of racial profiling (I’m white). And I’ve been asked if i worked in numerous stores as I walk up and down the aisles dressed in a dress shirt and tie. Again, I didn’t know I was supposed to be offended and feel victimized. As for Michelle being asked to get something down from a shelf, maybe it’s because she is way taller than most women and many men. Oh no, can’t be that. It must be because she’s black.
What a couple of miserable people.
[/QUOTE]
Now that’s Pit worthy.
[QUOTE=Shodan]
So if I don’t accept every racism story by a black couple at face value, I am denying that racism exists.
[/QUOTE]
There is a certain kind of person that never accepts any story of racism at face value. There are certain issues, racism and sexism among them, in which a certain kind of person is inclined to discount the lived human experience of others. These people lack empathy, though generally only in this very narrow context, because ten thousand stories of personally experiencing racism do not for some reason add up to a compelling enough narrative that racism is a real problem. Neither, for some reason, do the mountains of statistics demonstrating real inequality between white people and people of color, or the scads of human behavior research studies indicating that racial prejudice, conscious or otherwise, is a real thing. They will do all sorts of mental gymnastics and engage in all manner of rationalizations to explain away injustice. Then they will chalk up their systematic denial to ‘‘not taking every story’’ at face value.
Not taking a story of racism at face value is one thing. The question is, why do some people *never *take these stories at face value? Do we doubt our own personal perceptions so much? I think not. Everyone on the planet has an experience in which they were unjustly treated and would adamantly defend their perception as accurate. Why then do we doubt the personal perceptions of others? Why do we have so much faith in our own judgment but so little in others?
Maybe, but I was just going by the post, which despite the unnecessary (in my mind) skepticism, seemed like a genuine request for related stories from all Dopers.
Maybe I’m just a sucker for “tell me your story about X…” threads on the Dope.
I’m as white as they come and was once racially discriminated against by a local while on vacation in the Caribbean. I was getting groceries at the local large grocery store and while browsing down the aisle heard, “Go home whitie!” by someone walking past in the opposite direction.
Took my brain a few seconds to process what had just happened. An interesting and fairly unpleasant experience. So no doubt racism exists. But I can’t say I’ve much right to complain when compared to blacks or other minorities.
Why are you continuing to misrepresent what was actually written with something you think was written, but which was not?
He said:
.
So, probably blacks are more commonly mistaken for valets (probably). The implication is that everything else that the Obamas talk about in the article probably isn’t more common for blacks than whites.
I don’t think this is advanced reading comprehension.