If you voted yes to a Denver transit strike ...

The BBQ Pit
41

I’ve heard there are some drivers making $75,000 annualy with overtime, though I haven’t met anyone personally who’s said that.

But at what cost? Think about what it means to work WITHOUT A SINGLE DAY OFF. EVER. Just. Think. I don’t think a person should have to go even one month without a day off, but some drivers have gone months without one day to themselves. Months.

No time with family. No leisure time. What if your car needs to go to the shop? You have to take your daughter to the dentist? Who will do that for you? Cuz you won’t have time to do it yourself. And who will do the grocery shopping? Laundry? Errands? Clean the house? Who will take the dog to the vet for his shots? How will you explain to your son that you can’t attend his graduation? And what about church? You will no longer be able to attend.

I don’t think anyone should be forced to make those kinds of sacrifices on a daily basis. For any amount of money.

42

Unions are only as good as their members make them. Much like this country is only as good as the peple who vote…

If people don;t like the way a particular union is functioning, they need to take action to change it. After all, that’s what being in a union is all about. If everybody just wants a job with decent pay and benefits and just listens to the union heads rant on and on about their next goal, then your union is going to be shit. But if you elect responsible, reasonable leaders to the union, you’re likely to have good representation and people you can approach for help. It really is all in what you make of it.

43

Last I heard the Denver area was famous for low unemployment and that it was very much an employers market. The denver branch of my ex employer regularly commented that if you called a temp agency all you got was recently released from prison or physically and or mentally handicapped. Granted the jobs were only 8 an hour or so but they would put an ad in the paper and have 1-2 people show up to apply where in fresno, ca same business, .75 an hour less in pay we would have 50+ applicants per position.

44

Large Marge, I agree with your original complaint that those who voted for the strike should walk the beat. In my opinion, those who voted against are perfectly in their right to sit on their asses.

Working for weeks without a day off is also tragic and should be corrected. I’ll support you on that. Cost of living raises are necessary, too. Unfortunately, my benefits costs jumped this year, they all are, consider yourself lucky you have access to them at all.

I rode RTD busses for 6 years when I still worked downtown. I know the job has it’s challenges, especially the Colfax & similar routes. I’ve stood in two feet of snow at my park-n-ride waiting on the bus to come on snowstorm days. It may be late but usually something came along. I appreciate the job you do.

However, if I hear what you deserve for “safe transportation of the public” again, I’m going to hurl. Safe transportation of the public is the minimum of performance. What? We’re not paying enough so you’re in your right to sideswipe cars on the way in to Market Street?

I worked at Burger King - supplying safe, ebola-free, sustenance to hungry citizens. I worked for the phone company, supplying quality phone service to the citizens & business - ensuring access to 911 emergency services and phone calls to little-old ladies in tennis shoes.

Yes - you drive a bus. Don’t make it a matter of national importance. Skilled labor like yours is a commodity product. Four weeks and a uniform later and I could be doing the same job as you with the same skill. The pay reflects this.

I used to be a first-level supervisor over the “craft”, ie “union”, employees of the phone company. It used to burn my butt that I had to pay my slackers the same as my top performers. Time-in-title was everything. You practically had to kill a customer in front of live TV cameras to be terminated.

My worst performer? My Union-rep. I gave her a positive review just so she could get the transfer she wanted (poor performers can’t transfer). I worked the system to get rid of my worst performer. Not my proudest moment.

45

That $18.05 was the TOP pay, not the average or starting. I guess liars can figure and dumbasses can use calculators.

46

This wasn’t my “original” complaint; it was the reason I started this thread. You’ve decided this thread is about other things.

:confused: What are you talking about? Where in the hell do you see that in this thread? Or are you just pulling stuff out of your ass based on your own prejudices? Do you seriously think drivers believe that it’s ok to sideswipe cars because they feel they aren’t paid fairly? If not, and your statement is based on fact, please include a link to the story. Thanks.

Unless you’re driving 45 burger eaters at 65 miles an hour in a large metal projectile with no seatbelts down the highway trying to get them to work on time with crazy drivers on cell phones cutting in front of you at every possible moment, I’m afraid you can’t make the same comparison. Nice try though.

Actually, it’s eight weeks, and the odds are that you WOULDN’T last. Not because I know you personally, but because the statistics are not in your favor. We started with 18 people in our training class on day 1, and were down to 9 by the last day of class. That is typical, and it’s part of the reason we are down so many drivers. We can’t get good applicants, and the applicants we get can’t get through training, and those who do get through training become so disillusioned with the amount of work that they quit soon after. In my opinion, the problem will continue to get worse until they improve wages enough to entice enough people to stay long enough so that people don’t keep quitting because of the workload.

That’s not the case here. There is a system in place to ensure that drivers who have trouble either get the help they need or they are eventually relieved from the job. Seniority is important, but it’s not everything.

I’m sorry you’ve had trouble with your union rep, but why would you apply your bad experience to my particular unrelated situation?

Most of the people who’ve come to this thread to whine about how easy it is to be a bus driver have never been bus drivers, which is obvious from the ignorant remarks that have been made. I never said that driving a bus was a matter of national importance, nor did I imply it. It isn’t rocket science. I’m not performing surgery. I’m not arguing a case before the Supreme Court. But I am responsible for the safety of countless people every single day. Accept that fact and move on.

47

A bit more information, from the Rocky Mountain News.

48

Plus, you’re driving in Denver, which should be worth some hazard pay right there. :stuck_out_tongue:

49

Actually, I think this is what your first sentence was about…

So, sounds like what you said and it sounds like I was supporting you on it.

It’s called sarcasm. You keep making this “public safety” speach and I’m saying that it’s an empty attempt at self importance. My later Burger King “ebola” speach was intended to emphasize it. I don’t puff up the fact that in two years of pushing burgers, I didn’t poison anyone. Not poisoning people is the accepted minimum standard of food preparation. Just like not crashing the bus is the accepted minimum standard of driving a bus for a living.

I’m saying “lighten up” on the I’m an agent of public safety speach. It sounds like when a garbage man says “sanitation engineer”, it’s an empty phrase that is making people, or at least me, roll their eyes. Many people could kill somebody if they didn’t do their job properly - my old burger king job and my old phone company job are examples. I’m not walking around like a hero, though, for meeting the requirements of my job.

As long as you accept that this standard responsiblity of safety isn’t anything special. Bunches of job, including burger pushers, have a similar responsibility.

50

I’m still wondering why your union allowed things to get this bad and why you’re so vehement in thinking they’ll correct it now. Why are your co-workers still putting up with this? How much have you all paid them to put you in a spot like this?

These are honest questions.

51

Duffer, you don’t have a clear grasp of how unions work, and I don’t think I have the expertise to explain it to you. But I’ll give it an effort.

Where did I say express “vehemence” about the union being “correct”?

My co-workers aren’t putting up with it; hence the vote to strike.

I have paid about $140 dollars. I don’t know how much the others have paid, but I’m sure you know it depends on the length of time they’ve been with the company.

The union doesn’t “put us in a spot.” Union members–RTD employees–put themselves in this spot by voting to reject the contract.

52

Belrix, you’ve spent a lot of time reading things into my posts that aren’t there.

Perhaps it’s time for a hobby?

53

Yes, because everyone knows that there are no non-union jobs that pay more than minimum wage. :rolleyes:

For those in the unions, maybe. At the expense of people who rely on union-produced products and union labor. Those people have jobs and families too.

There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch. Union employees make more money because they gain a monopoly on labor and use it to force the employer to pay more. When businesses do it, they get charged under anti-trust laws.

I’ve got nothing against unions, so long as they do not enjoy special protection under the law such as ‘closed shop’ laws and government regulations that force contractors to use union labor. And of course, union violence is often treated differently than your garden-variety violence. When was the last time a union member went to jail for smashing a picket sign into the side of car driving through a picket line?

54

I think the previous poster was referring to this comment Marge. Your statement is factually true, they are responsible for the safety of passengers. But many I think, like those in this thread, have viewed this as self-aggrandizing speak (i.e. we are the glue that holds society together type of language that many unions use when they are told they will not receive what they want in a contract). I am not sure if you meant it that way though.

Nonetheless, good luck with the whole picketing thing.

55

Oh heaven’s no. I’m a bus driver, for gawd’s sake, not a nuclear physicist. I have been a union member for all of two months, so the word “safe” didn’t come from there.

Safety is heavily emphasized in RTD training, and that is why I used that word. It is considered a huge part of the job. Anyone can get someone to point A to point B, but to do it safely–as our jobs require us too–requires training, proper equipment and good common sense. Working on four hours of sleep without a day off in four months can make that difficult.

I likely will find other work before the strike ends. So all that training was for naught, essentially.

56

I should add, too, that drivers face many more hazards than, say, a person who flips burgers at Burger King. Traffic, road hazards, mechanical breakdowns, etc., all add to the stress a driver can face while carrying passengers.

Just last week, I was carrying a load of commuters home on I-36, and, in the middle of a lane change doing 60 mph, I spied a shovel lying right in the lane I was merging into. I avoided the shovel, because I was looking far enough ahead to make a plan before hitting it, but that’s what we’re supposed to do. If I had hit the shovel and had a blowout at those speeds in commuter traffic, it’s highly likely that one or more of my passengers could have been injured or even killed.

it is a daily stressor, in addition to making your time points, providing courteous customer service to sometimes less-than-courteous passengers, and providing accurate information on routes, schedules and fares.

I’m not saying that other jobs don’t have stress or don’t emphasize safety. They do. What I’m saying is that providing safe transportation–not just a ride–is a serious responsibility that most drivers don’t take lightly.

A while back, a driver on the Mall hit and killed a small child and has not been the same since. I mean, would you be? You were responsible for providing safe transportation and someone is killed while you are driving the bus? I don’t know if I could live with that. It’s an enormous responsibility. And it doesn’t take much for an accident to happen, either. It only takes one look away, one distraction, and you can never go back and change what happened. It’s done.

It would be like taking care of someone else’s child and then not noticing when the child fell into the pool.

I mean yeah, it’s just babysitting, but safety is a deadly serious issue, and you were responsible for the safety of that child. We see the results of those kinds of mistakes in the news every day.

So yeah, safety is a big part of what we provide.

57

Considering your non-answer, you do have the union expertise. Are you a driver? Or a union rep?

By calling for those responsible enough to show up for work to join the picket line. Nice touch in offering a Doper’s sister a ride to work. What about the rest of those folks? Asking for their addresses in the paper?

But they did put up with it. According to you drivers have gone 6 months WITHOUT EVER HAVING A DAY OFF!!! EVER!!!

The strike is only less than a week old. So for over a half year your brethren have been destroying their lives, ruining marriages and probably kicking puppies based on the contract your union set up and the stress it has caused. If they really are looking out for you, how in the hell did it ever get this bad?

$140? In union dues? Total? I have to wonder how long you’ve been a member of this union.

Well, no, you’re not in a spot for rejecting the contract. Those that went 6 MONTHS WITHOUT A DAY OFF were in a spot. Thanks to a union that couldn’t prevent that shit from happening.

But if you think they’re doing everything they can to help you out, by all means walk. Enjoy it, who knows how many days off you’ll have this year with that union negotiating your new contract.
I get 2 days off every week. Voluntary overtime if I want it, 401(k), stock, health, dental, life, vision and 28 days of PTO. All being non-union.

And I’ll be going to work tomorrow. Sounds pretty good to me. YMMV.

58

There’s the answer I was looking for.

You’ve bought the union hook, line and sinker. Give it 6 months when you haven’t had a day off and see the bitterness level then.

Good luck with it. Considering this is what you are jumping into and want to join it, don’t get mad at anyone when the bed you made is pissed on. Some people just have to learn.

59

duffer, those who are working are not members of the union and are not employed by RTD. They are employees of other companies to which RTD has subcontracted routes. Large Marge is pitting those members of the union who voted to strike, but choose not to picket. Her stance is one with which I fully agree.

I have yet to read of any union employee crossing the lines.

60

Duffer, you must try to focus. Reading all the posts would be good, too.