Agreed.
In the hypothetical 2-out/10-run deficit, a home-run is no more useful than a single. Since a ton more batters have to come up, not-getting-out is all that’s called for. If a batter’s best chance of not getting out is bunting, what’s the big deal?
You know, I think I’ll take the leap and say that laying down a bunt to break up a no hitter is right in any situation, down by 1 or 10. A no-no is an opposing pitcher shaming your team’s offense. Mud in his eye, I say, lay down a bunt and toss the bat at him while you’re doin’ it.
With all due respect to mhendo and his considerable baseball knowledge, there are things that are taught to players at every level of play, and bunting to break up a no-hit bid with a blowout score is a no-no. Even if you personally have no problem with it…even if statistically it makes sense to do so, it’s frowned upon. If I were to break up a no-hitter in the 9th down by 10 runs with a bunt, I’m not just being a jerk to the other team, but the guys in my own clubhouse will have a lower opinion of me. My manager now has an lower opinion of me. Should it be that way? Probably not. Is it? Yep.
I, as fan sitting here talking about it, would break up a no-no any way possible, especially if a bunt bae hit was part of my game. If I had spent 5 years in the minors and was constantly reminded by coaches how to play the game and saw how my major league peers looked upon such behavior, I might have a different opinion.
If I’m no-hitting a team, I’d be pissed off if someone tanked a play so I could get the no-hitter. That’s like saying, “You’re not good enough to actually no-hit us, so here’s a gift.” Fuck you, I’m no-hitting you. I don’t need your help!
I’m sure you’re right.
My whole argument in this thread has been based on what i believe to be reasonable, not on old-fashioned baseball habits and prejudices and traditions. I absolutely agree that bunting in this situation is probably “frowned upon” by many, perhaps most, people in the Major Leagues. I just happen to believe that it’s a silly and irrational position to take.
I played on some pretty awful baseball teams as a kid but we never gave up a no-hitter.
But maybe my tennis experience is relevant. I’ve played in a few tournaments where I was hopelessly outclassed. Maybe I entered because the $50 entry fee went to charity or something like that. And tennis instructors are always telling you to face tough competition. And being the worst player there I’d get to play the best player in the first round. Anyway, once it was such a mismatch that I actually took only one point in the whole match. That’s right, one point! Not one game, one point. And as bad as that was, it would have been worse if I hadn’t won that point. So if we had come down to match point and he had a shutout going I would have done anything to win at least one point before I went home. And let the other guy get his glory some other day.
Brenly’s complaint was wrong, too, since I think his team was only winning by a run or two at the time and the bunt made all the sense in the world.
Bunts aren’t automatic hits anyway, even if you do them well. So I’d swing away -losing is embarrassing enough, being no-hit is worse. No way would I make an out intentionally.
Exactly. As this article on Baseball Prospectus says:
Also true, although some MLB players are a lot more successful at laying down a bunt single than others.
For example, by the All-Star Break this year, Colorado’s Willy Taveras had attempted 36 bunt singles, and been successful on 27 occasions. That’s a batting average of .750 on bunt-single attempts. There were also quite a few other players whose success rate on bunt-single attempts was between .400 and .600, although none of them had anywhere near as many attempts as Taveras. The only other guy to attempt more than 20 bunt singles before the All-Star Break this year was Juan Pierre, and he was only successful on 8 out of 28 tries (.286). At that stage of the season, Taveras had a total of 88 hits, so bunt singles comprised 30.7% of all his hits.
There are also people who have had some historically bad years in terms of bunt-single success rate. This article takes a more in-depth look at the phenomenon.
Of course, as the author points out, the numbers don’t tell the whole story about whether trying a bunt single is a good idea. Common sense suggests that, for the most part, the sort of person most likely to try a bunt single is someone who thinks he can actually pull it off. This requires either very good bunting skills, lots of speed, or preferably both. Or taking the defense by surprise. Being left-handed is also an asset, as you can do a drag bunt and be on your way to first base faster than a right-handed hitter.
The figures in that article do suggest, though, that for the sort of person who is most likely to attempt to bunt for a base hit, they tend to be successful at a pretty high rate.
That’s a .500 batting average. Of course, frequent bunting isn’t likely to do your slugging percentage any good, and it could also reduce your chances of walking, hence your OBP.
No doubt making bunting too much would cause the defence to adjust to that, though? It seems to me that bunts for hitsare really only effective when they’re unexpected.
You would think so, but given the relatively high success rate among players with 50+ bunt attempts (cited above), either the defenses aren’t adjusting much, or the adjustments aren’t working.
For example, by the time Taveras had his 20th bunt hit this year, you’d think the defenses would be looking for the bunt. Yet he continued to get bunt base hits.
One guess is that, even when they suspect that a player is likely to bunt, they don’t want to play too far in and risk giving up a hit through the infield if that player decides to swing the bat. After all, if you give up a bunt single, the worst that happens is a single. If you give up a swinging hit, it could go for a double or a triple.
Neither does the game of baseball. 