Airline seats are not simply developed for the average person. They are designed to accommodate (albeit without great comfort) a large portion of the single tailed distribution around this mean size. What am I saying? When it is not possible to remain in a seat without making physical contact with the person in the adjacent seat (granting that you may or may not be obese, and it may or may not be within your control), you don’t belong in that seat. It is simply not practical to design coach class seats to fit this small fraction of large people.
I have been sat upon. It sucks. Bad. I’d feel awful for anyone made to leave, but I wish them well and may their god go with them. Until they introduce quantum seats, physics dictates that two people cannot occupy the same space, and for fucks sake, I paid for a meager amount of space that I require and am not willing to share.
The wheelchair analogy is about as relevant as french fries are to French cuisine. If you like that analogy. While a world where no physical limitation result in, well, limitations is the PC wet dream, there are, um, limits. If we can agree that I should not subsidize additional seating nor give up a portion of my seat, this thinking requires the airline to do so. Out to what percentile of size should they be required to accommodate and where do you draw the line? How much would their capacity be reduced, and what is the accompanying lost revenue? Can this be blamed on the School of the Americas?
I’m very much on the fence on this topic. On one hand, it does seem that if you take up extra space, you should pay for it and be able to space out. I have great sympathy for the woman who was injured; it sounds like what she went through was very painful.
On the other hand, just how British was this woman that she didn’t speak up once during an 11 hour flight? In my book, the maximum number of tendons that a person should allow to snap before they let out a “pardon me” is one.
See, I’m a big guy. All my life, I’ve been big. Hell, I grew so fast that I had bone problems as a child that made it painful to walk. Right now I’m 6’2" and somewhere between 300 and 350 pounds. Here’s the thing, though: I don’t think I look it, and I do fit in airline seats, although there isn’t any “wiggle room”. It’s not comfortable, but I make it. And those seats are very freakin’ narrow.
The thing is, it doesn’t seem fair to make one person pay for two seats. I don’t know where happyheathen’s been buying tickets, but the last time I flew, it was $200 round-trip. I should pay $400 because I overlap? Fuck that shit.
See, I know that what I’m paying for isn’t just a rental of a few cubic feet; there’s a lot of other stuff that goes into a flight. So, if I pay twice as much, here’s the deal:
[ul]
[li]I expect two of those shitty pillows and two of those tiny blankets.[/li][li]I expect twice as many peanuts as those other cattle.[/li][li]While you’re at it, leave two cans of whatever I’m drinking.[/li][li]I expect that flight attendant to hustle her bony ass down the aisle twice as fast when I ring the button.[/li][li]I expect twice as much yummy oxygen in my thin, recirculated airplane air as everyone else is getting.[/li][li]I expect to be allowed twice as much carryon space. After all, I’m packin’ for two![/li][li]For that matter, I should be allowed twice as much luggage in general.[/li][li]My seat had better be twice as safe as everyone else’s. It should also be twice as comfortable and recline twice as far.[/li][li]I expect to get off the plane twice as fast as everyone else.[/li][li]And finally, I’d better get two smiling "Buhbye"s from each member of the crew on my way out.[/li][/ul]
I can understand paying, maybe, 50% more, and getting 50% more space. But paying twice as much is just ridiculous.
i frequently fly from NZ to the UK, thats a 30 hour flight depending on which way they go and most of these flights are full to capacity.
im 5 foot and about 100kg, thats pretty fat-ish, but ive never had problems with not fitting in seats. sure its not the most comfortable experience, but i manage and havent flattened my seat partner yet.
even though im fat i have to come down in the ‘pay for the space you use that is outside the one seat ticket price’ camp, that goes for extremely fat people , people with babies who spread their shit everywhere, and business people who cant last the flight without heaping work papers everywhere.
No, I think Max Torque wants the airlines to redesign every seat to fit a 350-pound person, and then charge us all more to make up their lost revenue, so that he can save money.
Max. Even we British won’t put up with that - she complained and was sat in the stewardess seat for a while, but the flight was 100% booked. She even had to stand up for a while.
The only way to deal with it in a fair and reasonable way is to get the obese (or the exceedingly big boned) to buy 1 1/2 seats and sit them in pairs in the 3 seat blocks.
Failing that, tough. You have to pay for 2 seats because an economy seat is not designed for a 20 stone person and, as has been said, I don’t see why I have to pay $300 for a $200 ticket (plus the cost of restructuring all the aircraft).
I believe I read that Southwest Airlines intended to make large passengers pay for two seats, but were not going to give them the extra perks that go along with the seat. Like, two sets of Frequent Flyer Miles, two of everything. I mean, why not? They are making them buy two seats, right? How is it fair that they can’t at least get the frequent flyer miles?
I think I remember hearing Southwest’s response was that they weren’t selling seats, they were selling “carriage”, or something? (I know there’s a cite somewhere, but damned if I am going to look for it at this hour.) I interpreted this to mean that they are selling a ride, kind of like rides (seats) are sold on a bus. And therefore, they shouldn’t have to give the extra meal or the extra frequent flyer miles to the person who buys two seats. (And why am I calling these things “extra”? The person PAID for the seat and presumably everything that came with it, right?)
I mean, I don’t get it. It’s got to be one or the other. Either they are selling seating space, and all that comes with it, or they are selling a ride on a plane. If they are selling a ride on a plane, I should think that each person pays the same price. If they are selling SEATS, then each seat gets a meal, frequent flyer miles, a pillow, and so on. These airlines can’t skew it all in their favor.
I can’t help but think that if someone needs two seats, then perhaps they should only have one meal .
Joking aside, the more sensible points that Max lists are spot on. These people should get 2 luggage allowances, carry on allowances, pillows, blankets and peanuts/meals/drinks. The other points aren’t valid, although he might reasonably expect to see the stewardess twice as often.
I can see no reasonable argument that a person who pays for two seats should not be entitled to the doubling of everything (FF miles, meals, drinks, baggage, etc). The only reason the airline would not is to simply skim profits off of them.
And it’s very unlikely that the airlines will change their policy on that. This economy has destroyed any chance of getting service from an airline. At one time, my uber-ultra frequent flyer status got me a “Yes ma’am!” whenever I asked for small things to help accomodate me. Now, the response is “our way or highway, bitch”.
I have flown First Class on at least…Jesus, 30 Delta flights this year?, due to my FF status. And I can tell you that the service quality has declined rapidly to that of coach. You now get two drinks on a 3-hour flight, and sometimes no snack. On two flights recently, more than 2 hours long, there was NO service on the plane for anybody. One stewardess in First class, who knew me because I flew the same route 4 times in a row, told me that “Delta has started cutting off service on some flights, to save money.”
So a $1500 First Class ticket gets you a larger seat, two drinks, and a bag of peanuts. Sometimes. And that’s all.
I cannot believe how air travel became so terrible so quickly. I can remember back to when COACH seats got a hot meal served. The only time I get anything like the “good old days” of service is when I pay $5000 for a transatlantic business class ticket.
Amen. For the business traveler who has no choice but to make frequent use of airlines, there are few options that will allow you to arrive at your destination comfortable, rested, and perhaps even having gotten some work done. And that is really all I ask. Well, maybe a couple drinks would be nice too.
It’s important to point out that it is US based carriers that have declined the most. Despite uber-status on two of them, I have no doubt I get friendlier, more efficient service for less money and in a coach seat on Air Canada, or even China Southern. I’m going to patronize every star alliance member save United whenever possible from now on.
You poor, poor people. If you are being truthful Waverly, that puts your situation in perspective for me. Air Canada is an absolute shadow of its former self of even say, 4 years ago. To say that you get better service with them now than you do on other domestic carriers, Oy!
IIRC, Southwest would not guarantee two people traveling together could sit together, and certainly not 3. I am 5’2" and weigh nearly 300 pounds. I have fit into every airplane seat without touching my fellow flyers or the tops of the armrests. I tend to sit with my arms crossed in front of me to insure this. My fellow flyers often touch me though; apparently I make a good shoulder rest. However, Southwest is likely to take one look at me and say, “You need two seats.”
If I am traveling with 2 companions there would be no objection from them, if I had only one seat, but likely I would still be charged for an extra seat. If they are charging for carriage, they should never charge one person for two seats, if they are charging for 2 seats, then the person paying for 2 seats should get all the accomodations that 2 seats allow. Including extra luggage. If they can’t guarantee that my husband can sit next to me, how can they guarantee a free seat next to me? This is a scam.
This is because Southwest does not have assigned seating, which although I like many other things about Southwest, especially their ultra-friendly staff, I hate non-assigned seating. And for very good reasons, which I need not rant about here.
What exactly is the point of replies like this? “I have nothing to say but my big brother’s gonna be here soon and he’s going to kick your ass.” It’s still a “lawnchair” even if you don’t use the word.
As for the OP, if you’re too big to fit in a seat, you damn well should pay for two. If you have to pay for two seats, you damn well should get twice the goodies, meager that they are, and that includes FF miles.
IIRC the proposed standard would be to place someone in a seat and if they could belt in, they were ok. If they couldn't, or needed an extender, they were too big. (did they except pregnant women?) If you could sit in the standard seat, you were OK.
And yes, they should give the person that buys 2 seats double everything - double drinks, double baggage allowance, etc.
I think an airline that maybe had some “super coach” seats
(replace a row of 4 with 3, or of 3 with 2) at a premium price of 133% or 150% instead of 200% might do good business at the same revenue. (They would lose some on flights typically 100% booked)
I have never minded when a larger person sat next to me on a plane, I even consider it a bonus!
See, I’m a small gal - my feet only graze the floor when I sit down. A tall person will help me turn on the overhead light that I can’t reach and put my bag up in the overhead compartment. I’m always freezing, so a large person spilling over into my seat is also bringing along their body heat. I’ve got room to spare and I like the nearby warmth (I have to be careful about falling asleep on a flight - I’m always afraid I’ll start cuddling up to a stranger just to stay warm).
I know I’m being selfish, but I love flying next to a big person.
On all but on flight, Air canada IIRC i did not need a seat belt extender. The extenders are used by the flight attendants during the safety demonstration. Why charge if they are needed?
I have had smaller people cuddle up to me. I don’t mind as long as their hands don’t wander.
Lee,
I think the idea was if they were so large as to need an extender, they probably hung over the edges of the seat in other places too. It also would reduce arguments of “The gate agent on the way here said I only needed one seat…”. That’s why I wondered if they made exceptions for pregnant women, who could be very large in the belly and not very large elsewhere.
Well bully for you. It does nothing to disprove my assertion that my head is thrust forward, however. Why? Here’s a hint: My husband is 5’11. His brother is 6’2. They both wear a 34" waist/32" length pant. How can that possibly be???
Or, another way of looking at it is that the 6’9" dude in first class is subsidizing you.
Look, the airline industry is in a world of hurts right now. I just think they could do more to design their planes to be more comfortable. That doesn’t mean retrofitting planes. But it would mean changing the design of future models to more comfortably accomodate their entire customer base, not just the 5’10" customers.
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