"If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."

[Rhythmdvl]

@Procrustus

I meant both. Warning accepted.

FTFY:

Okay.

[Shodan]

@Sateryn76

Serious question - weren’t all the things that a business takes advantage of already paid for? The roads my packages are shipped on are paid for, and their upkeep is paid by gas taxes (mainly). My (theoretical) employees were educated by my property taxes that I’ve already paid. When I use the USPS, I pay per package, in addition to the tax dollars that go there.

Obama seems to be implying that you didn’t pay taxes to support the infrastructure and so forth, and that you owe more than what you have paid already towards infrastructure and upkeep.

Very often, when a politician says “we need to work together on this” he is trying to get his hand into your wallet. Same here - Obama is trying to make it sound like small business hasn’t been paying its share in taxes.

Regards,
Shodan

[Fear_Itself]

@Shodan

Same here - Obama is trying to make it sound like small business hasn’t been paying its share in taxes.

Do you believe Obama wants to raise taxes on all small businesses?

[Sinaptics]

@Shodan

Obama seems to be implying that you didn’t pay taxes to support the infrastructure and so forth, and that you owe more than what you have paid already towards infrastructure and upkeep.

Very often, when a politician says “we need to work together on this” he is trying to get his hand into your wallet. Same here - Obama is trying to make it sound like small business hasn’t been paying its share in taxes.

Regards,
Shodan

I disagree. He’s saying that the uber rich and big business aren’t paying their fair share of taxes. As far as I know, not only is he advocating keeping the tax cuts for small business, but has lowered them even further than the Bush cuts did. It’s a constant refrain among conservatives that Obama hates small business, but the facts do not at all correlate with this perception.

[Bosstone]

@Hentor_the_Barbarian

I’m really coming to understand the conservative mind better and better every day. For instance, the problem with TANF isn’t all the people who benefit from temporary assistance to a needy family, it’s the idea that someone somewhere may be unduly benefiting. My cousin knows this guy who totally is ripping off the Medicare system, so we shouldn’t support Medicare.

That’s pretty much on target.

[Merneith]

@Hentor_the_Barbarian

Well, that and the creator of what became MS-DOS, which Gates bought from someone else. Surely Gates owes his success to the fact that an infrastructure existed that helped to produce the primary key to his success.

Not to mention all the guys at Xerox PARC. But hey, let’s not talk about how dumb Romney is! Let’s pretend that Obama wasn’t saying we all need to work together - let’s pretend that he was saying small business owners should have to pay double to support a bunch of freeloaders!

[Kobal2]

@Hentor_the_Barbarian

He’s making a point that I’ve repeatedly made here on these boards to counter the idea of the independent success story. America is strong because of Americans and what we have built. We are successful because of all that has been built to give us the environment we have to succeed. All the infrastructure has been built by other people.

Standing on the shoulders of giants ? FUCK THAT ! Newton was 20 feet tall all along !

[Sateryn76]

@Hentor_the_Barbarian

Further,

Sateryn76, Sicks Ate et al.:

Do you think it is heroic for a member of the military to die in service to America?

Depends. Iraq, no. Afghanistan, maybe. A cop shot down protecting a child, yes. A cop killed in a drug raid, no. WW2, yes. Lindy Whatshername, no

Why?

[Shodan]

@Sinaptics

I disagree. He’s saying that the uber rich and big business aren’t paying their fair share of taxes.

Well, he always says that - he is just giving what he supposes is a good reason why successful business owners, large or small, should be taxed more. Because he apparently believes they haven’t paid for the infrastructure, or teachers, or whatever, already.

I think what we are seeing is the trouble with someone with no business or private sector experience. He assumes that successful businesses just happen somehow.

Regards,
Shodan

[Procrustus]

@Shodan

Well, he always says that - he is just giving what he supposes is a good reason why successful business owners, large or small, should be taxed more. Because he apparently believes they haven’t paid for the infrastructure, or teachers, or whatever, already.

I think what we are seeing is the trouble with someone with no business or private sector experience. He assumes that successful businesses just happen somehow.

Regards,
Shodan

Even those of us with business experience know that success isn’t killed by paying Clinton era taxes. Success is killed by Bush era economics.

[Marley23]

@Shodan

I think what we are seeing is the trouble with someone with no business or private sector experience. He assumes that successful businesses just happen somehow.

Two guys with private sector experience got elected in 2000 and they had some magic-based views on taxes and government funding.

[Sateryn76]

@Ravenman

May I ask what types of schools you went to for your education? Public, private, or religious schools? A little community college in there, private liberal arts, a technical school, or something else?

Public schools, and I’m okay with paying for that, for me and for everyone else’s kids. But why do we need more?

Maybe when you look at an issue like education from the viewpoint of a business owner, you look at it from an investment standpoint. So far, more money for schools has not panned out the way we hoped, and we need to try to fund other ideas. So, this investment isn’t paying dividends, so instead of investing more in a bad way, we should put the money elsewhere

I don’t bulk at paying, I balk at paying more to a bad system.

[Exapno_Mapcase]

@Shodan

Obama seems to be implying that you didn’t pay taxes to support the infrastructure and so forth, and that you owe more than what you have paid already towards infrastructure and upkeep.

Very often, when a politician says “we need to work together on this” he is trying to get his hand into your wallet. Same here - Obama is trying to make it sound like small business hasn’t been paying its share in taxes.

@Shodan

Well, he always says that - he is just giving what he supposes is a good reason why successful business owners, large or small, should be taxed more. Because he apparently believes they haven’t paid for the infrastructure, or teachers, or whatever, already.

Infrastructure is a continuing expense. Use of infrastructure is ongoing, by everybody. There is never a time when anyone can say that they have paid for infrastructure in the past and therefore are exempt from paying for it in the future.* This is not remotely a serious argument.
*For nitpickers only: Yes, retirees can stop paying taxes and so can others who don’t have the income. This argument is about working and earning businesses.

[elucidator]

Just reviewing in my mind our amazingly good Presidents who came from a business background. Having a little trouble getting started. Number one is kinda holding me back. I mean, Truman had a haberdashery shop, but it failed. Kennedy no doubt had investments, but he had people for that sort of thing. I’m sure if I could just get that first one, all the rest would line up…

[davidm]

@Shodan

Well, he always says that - he is just giving what he supposes is a good reason why successful business owners, large or small, should be taxed more. Because he apparently believes they haven’t paid for the infrastructure, or teachers, or whatever, already.

I think what we are seeing is the trouble with someone with no business or private sector experience. He assumes that successful businesses just happen somehow.

Regards,
Shodan

And you base that last sentence on what? The quote in the OP? If so, then maybe you haven’t followed this thread. There’s something called context.

[Voyager]

@Shodan

Well, he always says that - he is just giving what he supposes is a good reason why successful business owners, large or small, should be taxed more. Because he apparently believes they haven’t paid for the infrastructure, or teachers, or whatever, already.

Did you pay for your teachers when you were in school? Why do you object to paying for teachers for the next generation?
What if people like you cut school funding and took away classes important to your education?

I think what we are seeing is the trouble with someone with no business or private sector experience. He assumes that successful businesses just happen somehow.

Regards,
Shodan

Oops - I guess someone took away the class on reading comprehension!

[Evil_Economist]

@elucidator

Just reviewing in my mind our amazingly good Presidents who came from a business background. Having a little trouble getting started. Number one is kinda holding me back. I mean, Truman had a haberdashery shop, but it failed. Kennedy no doubt had investments, but he had people for that sort of thing. I’m sure if I could just get that first one, all the rest would line up…

President Reagan ran a successful monkey-raising business, I believe. Prior to becoming president, I mean.

[Shodan]

@Voyager

Did you pay for your teachers when you were in school?

How many business owners do you know that are in high school?

Why do you object to paying for teachers for the next generation?

Why is Obama implying that successful business owners aren’t paying for teachers?

What if people like you cut school funding and took away classes important to your education?

First, I would check if people like you were trying to change the subject, and spouting nonsense.

Oops - I guess someone took away the class on reading comprehension!

Maybe, but not apparently from me.

Regards,
Shodan

[Shodan]

@Exapno_Mapcase

Infrastructure is a continuing expense. Use of infrastructure is ongoing, by everybody. There is never a time when anyone can say that they have paid for infrastructure in the past and therefore are exempt from paying for it in the future.* This is not remotely a serious argument.

It’s also not a serious argument that successful business owners did not pay taxes to support the infrastructure that was a necessary but not sufficient prerequisite for their success. Yet that seems to be what Obama is implying.

Regards,
Shodan

[davidm]

In your mind Obama seems to be implying a lot of things. That doesn’t mean that he actually is implying them.