No reply to what point?
As for my attitude toward this thread, I summed that up in my first post. Apos made a snarky comment. december made a snarky reply. This thread is pointless.
I see, but I did not ask for your attitude, if you cannot deal with the current point, why bring your non defense of december’s volley then?
It’s OK to hate the Pope for his anti-abortion views, and on the whole sex abuse scandal, but the checkered history of the Catholic Church vis-a-vis the Jews is right out?
decemeber makes his case and he’s not rude. I just wish people would attack him in the thread in question. Why pit the guy? It makes no sense.
Maybe that’s because there’s a whole other thread on the subject already, starting by december himself. But then, why refer someone to a pre-existing thread when you can just keep repeating the same assertions over and over again?
My opinion is that my opinion isn’t important. I can’t help it, I’m a facts and figures kinda guy. Opinions don’t impress me.
Reread my second post in this thread. My argument is that december has introduced facts in support of his statement. That is an open invitation to actually refute the statement. Do so!
Bringing this to the Pit so that everyone can evade argumentation and simply spout abuse is, well, less than impressive.
Ummm…my quote that you use is actually referring to that thread, which was already linked to in the OP.
I don’t think you’re following along.
It all sounds like ordinary Republican Party logic to me.
War is for peace. Peace is attempted genocide.
We are justified in attacking anyone we want to attack, because we are the good guys.
And we will pay for it all by cutting taxes.
Was it just recently you guys noticed that this jingoistic bullshit is illogical?
Remember when every air strike carried out during the Clinton Administration was “Bill Waggin’ the Dog”? Everyone knows that a war during a Democratic Administration is evil incarnate, for the preservation of the Dreaded Liberal Cowardice. War by Republicans, of course is Noble Defense of Liberty.
Get your The Official Bullshit Awareness Ribbon. out, and wear it tomorrow.
Tris
And my impression of Zigaretten just took a dive.
I did show that his “facts” were not right in my next post, BTW I checked the “facts” of his first reply and they are not reliable at all.
Still, If your opinion is not important, why a defence of a pointless opinion?
I’m following along just fine. And I see an entire thread of refutations to december’s assertions. So why say that no-one’s addressed them?
On second thought, taking into account the context of Zigaretten post regarding opinions and facts, I can say that december’s first reply was a disaster according to your standards:
First, a book that dealt with PiusXII not Jean Paul II.
And the other “facts”? Three opinion pieces! So you say opinions don’t impress you? Do you pay attention to what you say?
Nobody’s going to listen, since it’s december, all they can see is their jingoistic flame fest. I agree that nobody had adressed the points brought up by december, (here, I haven’t read the other thread).
Excuse me, Weirddave, but what exactly is a “jingoistic flame fest”?
I’m don’t even care about the point december’s making. He might have named a pope who never existed for all I know. I just don’t get the number of pit threads devoted to december. If he was rude I would understand it. Perhaps we could sticky a pit thread in his honor.
That’s what happens when you change your mind in mid-sentence kiddies. Don’t let it happen to you.
Originally posted by December:
Not rude and he has a point? :rolleyes:
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by GIGObuster *
And the other “facts”? Three opinion pieces! So you say opinions don’t impress you? Do you pay attention to what you say? /QUOTE]
Indeed I do. Enough to have noticed that those “opinion pieces” contain the following “factual” assertions:
…….that Pope John Paul II has denounced “the march to war.”
…….that Pope JP II (is that considered rude?) has met personally with world leaders to “beseech the belligerents to stand down.”
…….that top Catholic Church officials have described the war as immoral.
……the Vatican has rejected arguments based on Catholic just-war doctrine that defend the war.
……that one of the Pope’s top lieutenants has called the war “a crime against peace.”
……that the Pope requested that Catholics worldwide offer their Ash Wednesday fasts for peace.
So far seems to pretty well establish that the Pope opposes the war on Iraq. (Unless refuted, of course.)
……the Vatican did not establish full diplomatic relations with Israel until 1997, nearly fifty years after Israel’s birth.
……the Pope condemned Israel for desecrating Christian Holy sites but never mentioned desecration by the IDF.
And so on. Obviously I’m just rewriting december’s first post. But these are all allegations of fact. As such, they can be refuted, unlike opinions. For instance, all you have to do is show where the Pope did condemn the IDF for desecrating the church in question.
Or you can argue that these “facts” are true but don’t lead to the conclusions that they are designed to elicit, namely that the office of the Pope has a history of being, anti-Israeli (or anti-Jewish) and that the present Pope opposes the war against Iraq.
Or you can argue that those conclusions are accurate but that that still doesn’t translate into support for december’s statement that the Pope is “supporting” (keeping in mind all of the definitions of “support”) a regime that kills Jews.
So, while I wouldn’t necessarily argue that this is the best argument that I’ve ever seen, it’s definitely an argument that I, with all my disdain for “opinion" intact, can deal with.
I’m learning exactly that lesson very quickly. (But not quickly enough to avoid looking pretty foolish, I’m afraid.)
Weirddave didn’t respond, so I’ll ask you zigratten, as you seem to agree with the use of the term. What exactly is a “jingoistic flame fest”?
Are you the Pope?:dubious: And since when is not having a point reason to pit someone? It’s a hell of a reason to post counter-arguments and evidence.
Everyone gets together and says "Hey, aren’t we the greatest and isn’t that nasty old december an (insert insult here)!