[QUOTE=Snarky_Kong]
It’s required time out of learning to pray.
[/QUOTE]
Hey, it’s not required! You can wear an armband that says, “I decline to pray.”*
- From Reagan-era SNL skit.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
I find something really fearful, even panicky about that kind of thinking. She doesn’t appear to have much faith in her own faith.
[/QUOTE]
I suspect there may be more going on there than just her fear of atheists. The politicians in Chicago are extremely vitriolic against anyone who gets in the way of whatever agenda they are advancing, and I believe many of them will do or say whatever they have to in order to discredit someone who disagrees with them. Attempting to exclude such dissenters from the political process is part and parcel of the way politics is done around here. I think if they could figure out a way to do away with elections altogether, they would do it in a minute. Hell, the current Cook County President wasn’t elected, but rather appointed, and it’s an elective office! If they want the money for that church, they will call anyone who opposes that racist, dangerous, they will demonize their atheism…whatever it takes to silence them.
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun]
I did not know that is what they called it. Thanks.
What is the a problem with this law?
[/QUOTE]
The state has no right to determine when kids should pray, and let’s be honest – all they’re trying to do is weasel a formal prayer ritual into the school day (as evidenced by the fact that Rep. Davis flat out called it a “prayer”). It serves no educational purpose and it’s subtly coercive to those who don’t want to pray. What if a kid doesn’t want to either pray or “contemplate the day?” Who is the government to tell kids what they have to think about while they’re being quiet? There really is no opportunity for kids to opt out of this. Basically the law says they have to stand there and shut up while the other kids pray.
If I was still a teacher, I would refuse to enforce or participate with this and I wouldn’t be the only one.
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun]
<snip>
I have been substituting in three districts in Illinois.
<snip>
[/QUOTE]
I really would have thought my opinion of the Illinois school systems could not drop much lower.
Live and learn…
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun]
Also, it does not have to be used to pray. The students can use it for any silent activity. I have yet to see any student that appeared to be praying during the moment of silence. Most of the students use the time to get their books and notes ready for class since the moment of silence is the first thing that happens.
[/QUOTE]
Well the short title is ‘Silent Reflection and Student Prayer Act’.
The long title is ‘Silent Reflection for Christian Protestant Prayer and Student Prayer for Commie Atheist Evolution-Loving Gay Pacifist Bastards Who Will Burn In Hell Forever Act’. :smack:
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
The state has no right to determine when kids should pray, and let’s be honest – all they’re trying to do is weasel a formal prayer ritual into the school day (as evidenced by the fact that Rep. Davis flat out called it a “prayer”). It serves no educational purpose and it’s subtly coercive to those who don’t want to pray. What if a kid doesn’t want to either pray or “contemplate the day?” Who is the government to tell kids what they have to think about while they’re being quiet? There really is no opportunity for kids to opt out of this. Basically the law says they have to stand there and shut up while the other kids pray.
If I was still a teacher, I would refuse to enforce or participate with this and I wouldn’t be the only one.
[/QUOTE]
I have taught in probably 10-15 schools in three districts, and I can tell you there is nothing for me to enforce beyond normal classroom discipline at these schools. The moment of silence is a part of the morning announcements. The students should already be silent during the announcements. There is no pressure to pray. If any of my students ever used the time to pray, I have not noticed. The students just ignore it.
I would be more concerned about the Pledge of Allegiance. There actually is some pressure to participate here since nearly every student stands and recites the pledge. I am usually the only person in the classroom not saying the pledge.
Whether it has educational value is highly questionable. But the morning announcements are an even bigger waste of time, especially in middle school and above where the students produce their own little TV news shows.
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun]
I have taught in probably 10-15 schools in three districts, and I can tell you there is nothing for me to enforce beyond normal classroom discipline at these schools. The moment of silence is a part of the morning announcements. The students should already be silent during the announcements. There is no pressure to pray.
[/QUOTE]
That the students ignore it - which isn’t a big surprise - is irrelevant, since the law is obviously religious in intent.
[QUOTE=Marley23]
That the students ignore it - which isn’t a big surprise - is irrelevant, since the law is obviously religious in intent.
[/QUOTE]
But-but-but
The law doesn’t require prayer to any particular g/God(s)
As long as there are tests there will be prayer in school
If a student doesn’t wish to pray he can “listen to the birds”
…
I’m pretty convinced that this is one of those issues that pretty much cannot be debated. It seems that people either immediately grasp why this law is undesireable, or they never will.
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun]
I have taught in probably 10-15 schools in three districts, and I can tell you there is nothing for me to enforce beyond normal classroom discipline at these schools. The moment of silence is a part of the morning announcements. The students should already be silent during the announcements. There is no pressure to pray. If any of my students ever used the time to pray, I have not noticed. The students just ignore it.
I would be more concerned about the Pledge of Allegiance. There actually is some pressure to participate here since nearly every student stands and recites the pledge. I am usually the only person in the classroom not saying the pledge.
Whether it has educational value is highly questionable. But the morning announcements are an even bigger waste of time, especially in middle school and above where the students produce their own little TV news shows.
[/QUOTE]
Thw way you describe it in practice is encouraging since it suggests that it is failing miserably in its intent. What happens if a kid talks during the allotted ten seconds?
[QUOTE=Marley23]
That the students ignore it - which isn’t a big surprise - is irrelevant, since the law is obviously religious in intent.
[/QUOTE]
That is your opinion. We will see how the courts rule. The legislature did specifically try to avoid the issues of the Alabama law that the Supreme Court stuck down in Wallace v. Jaffree. Virginia had its moment of silence law upheld by the federal courts.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Thw way you describe it in practice is encouraging since it suggests that it is failing miserably in its intent. What happens if a kid talks during the allotted ten seconds?
[/QUOTE]
I tell him to be quiet - the same as if he talked during any part of the announcements.
But if he does it twice, I am authorized to burn him at the stake for insulting Jebus.
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun]
That is your opinion.
[/QUOTE]
Right, and Intelligent Design isn’t religious in nature.
[QUOTE=Snarky_Kong]
Right, and Intelligent Design isn’t religious in nature.
[/QUOTE]
No, that is a fact.
I just want to put my balls in for some kissing from Davis.
You HAVE seen what she looks like, right?
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun]
No, that is a fact.
[/QUOTE]
:dubious: Then name me an ID theorist who is not also a traditional religious believer. (I won’t say atheist/agnostic, because ID logically requires the assumption of a Designer, never named as God but clearly something with the same skill-set; but if even one prominent IDist were a revelation-and-tradition-rejecting philosophical theist like Martin Gardner, that would significantly bolster the claim that ID is a “scientific” theory rather than a transparent cover for a Christian agenda.)
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun]
No, that is a fact.
[/QUOTE]
For “fact,” you may have meant “smokescreen.” ID is technically not religious on paper, but it’s a Trojan horse to get creationist teaching into schools.
[QUOTE=Dinsdale]
Illinois Compiled Statutes Annotated
Chapter 105. Schools
Common Schools
Act 20. Silent Reflection Act
20/0.01. Short title
§ 0.01. Short title. This Act may be cited as the Silent Reflection and Student Prayer Act.
20/1. Period of silence
§ 1. In each public school classroom the teacher in charge shall observe a brief period of silence with the participation of all the pupils therein assembled at the opening of every school day. This period shall not be conducted as a religious exercise but shall be an opportunity for silent prayer or for silent reflection on the anticipated activities of the day.
[/QUOTE]
Another law that completely gives away the purpose behind it. They don’t want it to be allowed to stand, they want to be able to point at opponents and call fro them to be burned at the stake.
You want a moment’s silence, take out the montion of silent prayer and you might stand more of a chance. But even when these laws don’t explicitly mention prayer, you look at the committee hearings and they are full of comments indicating that prayer is what is intended.
It is a shameful waste of time and resources to pass a law that is deliberately written to be unconstitutional in an attempt to prove how devout you are…
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
:dubious: Then name me an ID theorist who is not also a traditional religious believer. (I won’t say atheist/agnostic, because ID logically requires the assumption of a Designer, never named as God but clearly something with the same skill-set; but if even one prominent IDist were a revelation-and-tradition-rejecting philosophical theist like Martin Gardner, that would significantly bolster the claim that ID is a “scientific” theory rather than a transparent cover for a Christian agenda.)
[/QUOTE]
I meant, it is a fact that ID is religious.
Edit- I realize my comment above said the opposite. That is because I misread the quote from the other poster.
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun]
I did not know that is what they called it. Thanks.
What is the a problem with this law?
[/QUOTE]
It’s unconstitutional- Wallace v. Jaffee, 1985. The Court ruled that moments of silence are usually thinly-disguised attempts to put required prayer back into schools.