[QUOTE=D_Odds]
Hasn’t been for a while, if ever. School is for indoctrination. Only the lucky ones come out able to form their own opinions.
[/QUOTE]
Silly me, I thought that education was learning about all sorts of things besides your own little patch of the word.
The only reason the Virginia one was upheld was because it had more of a justification than “letting students think about their day”; admittedly, it was still bullshit (preventing gang violence? what the fuck?), but it;s at least more substantive.
As other people have observed, moments of silence do precisely jack and shit to promote student prayer; those who were inclined to pray did so outside of that time as well, and those who didn’t pray most of the time didn’t do so then either. The legislatures’ attempts to inject religion into school do nothing other than waste students’ time. I think Dave Barry said it best: “As long as there are tests, there will be prayer in schools.”
[QUOTE=appleciders]
It’s unconstitutional- Wallace v. Jaffee, 1985. The Court ruled that moments of silence are usually thinly-disguised attempts to put required prayer back into schools.
[/QUOTE]
Did they rule that broadly? Or did they rule that the particular law in question had a religious motivation, thus violating the famous “Lemon test”. That Alabama law required schools to have a moment of silence for “silent meditation or voluntary prayer.”
It’s a stupid law, and pretty hard to see as anything other than an effort at “organized” prayer time, since the law already allows students to pray individually at school. In fact, here is the text of that law.
[QUOTE=(105 ILCS 20/5)]
Sec. 5. Student prayer. In order that the right of every student to the free exercise of religion is guaranteed within the public schools and that each student has the freedom to not be subject to pressure from the State either to engage in or to refrain from religious observation on public school grounds, students in the public schools may voluntarily engage in individually initiated, non‑disruptive prayer that, consistent with the Free Exercise and Establishment Clauses of the United States and Illinois Constitutions, is not sponsored, promoted, or endorsed in any manner by the school or any school employee.
[/QUOTE]
I have no problem with this particular paragraph, but the silent prayer/reflection one is way too obvious. It probably doesn’t help their case that it recently was changed to say “shall observe a brief period of silence…” where before it said “may observe a brief period of silence…”
[QUOTE=John Mace]
Did they rule that broadly? Or did they rule that the particular law in question had a religious motivation, thus violating the famous “Lemon test”. That Alabama law required schools to have a moment of silence for “silent meditation or voluntary prayer.”
[/QUOTE]
In this case, the law has no clear (or even implied) secular purpose.
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
In this case, the law has no clear (or even implied) secular purpose.
[/QUOTE]
Well, yeah. That’s basically what it means to fail the Lemon test. My question was whether the Court ruled as broadly as **appleciders **said they did-- they usually rule pretty narrowly, and I didn’t say any indication that this was otherwise.
[QUOTE=Dinsdale]
First, the most unpopular religious or ethnic group.
Here’s a list of minority groups and the percentage of respondents who
had either a “mostly” or a “very unfavorable opinion” of said group…
[/QUOTE]
If it makes you feel any better, in this very ‘Catholic’* country (Dominican Rep.) you could be a black, Muslim lesbian, who also happens to be a child molester and you would still be more popular than the nicest atheist.
Most of us atheist here are deeply in the closet. 
- People may be outwardly Catholic, but few really follow the church’s teachings. Faith is just a handy amulet against God’s wrath, as a wise friend of mine put it.
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
In this case, the law has no clear (or even implied) secular purpose.
[/QUOTE]
The United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit found that Virginia’s similar law did have a valid secular purpose.
I can skip the rest of the arguments. This statement alone makes her an enemy of Human Freedom and thus, I swear eternal emnity upon her deluded soul.
Someone who believes such things has no business in our government.
[QUOTE=Mighty_Girl]
If it makes you feel any better, in this very ‘Catholic’* country (Dominican Rep.) you could be a black, Muslim lesbian, who also happens to be a child molester and you would still be more popular than the nicest atheist.
Most of us atheist here are deeply in the closet.
[/QUOTE]
According to Wikipedia, you don’t even exist!:
Or you’re apparently one of less than one one-hundredth of one percent of the population (0.01% is 976 people). Damn…
I guess I don’t really have a point here. I just found it interesting.
[QUOTE=Marley23]
I’ve seen surveys showing atheists are less trusted than Muslims- in fact I started a GD thread about one such survey in 2006. “Most hated,” I couldn’t say.
[/QUOTE]
In addition to being less trusted than Muslims I’m guessing there are also a lot more closeted atheists than there are closeted gays.
[QUOTE=Sampiro]
In addition to being less trusted than Muslims I’m guessing there are also a lot more closeted atheists than there are closeted gays.
[/QUOTE]
Are there any atheist bars or nightclubs out there?
[QUOTE=Czarcasm]
Are there any atheist bars or nightclubs out there?
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but half the time they’re taken over by Baptists and Catholics trying to seem cool.
[QUOTE=Sampiro]
Yeah, but half the time they’re taken over by Baptists and Catholics trying to seem cool.
[/QUOTE]
Damn them to He…no, wait.
Shit-I’ve got nothing.
[QUOTE=Czarcasm]
Are there any atheist bars or nightclubs out there?
[/QUOTE]
If there are, I hope it’s called The Foxhole, just to mess with people!
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
The part that chilled me the most was, “And it’s dangerous for our children to even know that your philosophy exists!”
[/QUOTE]
Well, we know which little action figure on which shoulder was whispering in her ear at that time – or do we?
Although there are 3 people in my office (of 40) who do not believe in any god or practice any religion, I am the only atheist. I’m the only one anyone knows is atheist.
It took me a long time to be ‘out’ as an atheist, because of the way things were where I grew up. Much of my family still refuses to acknowledge this, and I have been told on numerous occasions at work and at family gatherings that there is something wrong with me that needs to be fixed.
There was only one other atheist in the family, and it was made clear to me early on that this was a Very Bad Thing to be.
[QUOTE=neutron star]
Or you’re apparently one of less than one one-hundredth of one percent of the population (0.01% is 976 people).
[/QUOTE]
Wow! That many?
See my comment about a closet above. If only we had a secret handshake, or a handkerchief code…
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
If I was still a teacher, I would refuse to enforce or participate with this and I wouldn’t be the only one.
[/QUOTE]
I am a teacher, and as far as I can tell, not a single teacher in my school is participating in this nonsense.
[QUOTE=Cluricaun]
And not to hijack this but of course she manages to drag gun control into her meltdown, something that happens to make the news every single night these days. The city of Chicago should be made into it’s own special county and be forced to leave the rest of us Illinois folk alone, the corrupt and stupid bastards. I know lots of you don’t have the thrilling privilege of getting to see our nightly newscasts but you’d be appalled if you could. Half of the city is run by damned near open crooks, the other half by the dumbest bunch of assholes you’ve ever seen in your life, and in some cases both if you count Todd Stroger.
I’ve lived here for most of my life, but sometimes, man, fuck Chicago.
Oh, in case it’s not obvious, Monique Davis’s district is in the city of Chicago. Just more of the same with these dumbfucks dragging their problems downstate for everyone else to have to deal with.
[/QUOTE]
Illinois without Chicago would be Nebraska.
I agree with all of your other points, and the sooner we can take Toddler on the one way boat trip, the better off the County of Cook and the City of Chicago will be.
As far as Monique, well, she’s in the same bag of mixed and crooked nuts as Arinda Troutman, Dorothy Tillman, Burt Natarus and Dick Mell. You can top this bag off with hizzoner da mayor. We’re getting closer to housecleaning the police department, but there’s years and miles of patronage and red tape, respectively, to excise and remove from City Hall.