The definitions don’t tell you why the person chose the word. I gave you plenty of definitions of invade that specifically liken it to enemy humans trying to take over your country, or a swarm of insects trying to eat all your food. It is undeniable that the word invader can (and often does) mean an evil person entering your land to take everything you have. The question is whether or not the speaker wanted the listener to get that impression. You don’t get that from a dictionary.
Is the speaker using it in a neutral way? Maybe… if their other sentences about immigration are similarly neutral.
If their other sentences are about the damage done by immigrants, the jobs they take away, the resources they consume, the society they twist from its “natural” state, then no, they didn’t mean “invader” in a neutral way, they meant it in the nasty way.
But — in the thread that sparked this — I didn’t say a thing about the jobs they take away, or the resources they consume, or the society they twist from its “natural” state. So, y’know, infer meaning accordingly, I guess.
…can you give me an example of a single undocumented immigrant that you would consider an invader? Name and details of their invasion would be helpful here, thanks. Just so we can be clear what it is that you have in mind.
I’m glad to lay out a hypothetical — that someone who does X and Y and Z would, by my reckoning, be an invader — and if you want to name someone you think may or may not fit that bill, then you’re of course free to give me three or four examples, and I’ll do my best to tell you whether I figure they count.
You are talking about invasions. You are talking about invaders. Who are you talking about? There has to be at least a single person that would fit the bill.
And if there isn’t: and all that you have are hypotheticals, then using the word isn’t appropriate. Because the debate is about real actual living people.
If someone informed me, with multiple cites from folks across the political spectrum, that a term I’m using is strongly associated with a racist terrorist movement in the context I’m using it, I’d do one of two things:
I’d say, “Shit, sorry!” and stop using the term; or
I’d directly repudiate the racist terrorist movement and explain why, despite their use of the term, I thought the term was so specifically accurate that it was worth reclaiming from the terrorists.
What I wouldn’t do is get cute about “how many definitions do you need before you believe me?” and citing definitions outside of the specific context being discussed and otherwise distracting from the Great Replacement Theory that’s inspired multiple terrorist murders over the past five years.
But if I wanted to keep referencing Great Replacement Theory without being held to account for doing so–ah, then I might get cute about the OED.
Um. Okay, from a quick glance at recent headlines: Francisco Oropeza? If that name works, great; if not, (a) I’ll apologize and try to find another, but (b) I’d sure appreciate being given a name to weigh in on, instead of being asked to find one.
I don’t think I could possibly have made the case more strongly than you just did that “invader” in the context of immigrants is used to refer to someone with hostile intent, and against whom lethal violence is appropriate–and that while it might be (bizarrely) used to describe a mass-murderer, using it to describe the overwhelming majority of immigrants who don’t have hostile intent is inaccurate and hateful.
Oh. Okay, I directly repudiate the racist terrorist movement, and — despite their use of the term — I think the term is so specifically accurate that it’s worth reclaiming from them.
Not sure there’s much of an explanation to give beyond “it’s specifically accurate,” but, hey, there you go.
As I just said, I think your explanation suffices better than any I could give to show how the term is used, and why it should be moderated. I don’t see any need to entertain your supposed objections further.
No; I was merely asked to provide a name, and so I shrugged and did so. And I’d ask you to provide a name in turn — and if you’re as willing to do so, then I’ll gladly tell you whether I figure they, too, count.