…So it is shown to be bullshit.
(emphasis mine)
So I guess we can all rest assured that we won’t hear this untruth again from our fine amnesty-light politicians or illegal immiggration apologists of either stripe.
So one story on one case is enough to convince you? Okay, here’s another story out of Colorado which shows that the people there would rather have gay sex in a giant pile than allow immigrants to work.
Ooh, can we do both?
You cite is an episode of South Park???
Put on the asbestos underwear.
They took yur thread!
So tell me, Apologist Number One, how many stories will it take to convince you? And I maintain that each American who steps up and tries to get one of those jobs is one story. So how many?
On the other hand, do you have any evidence that the old saw is true? What is true is that many Americans won’t do a lot of jobs for the same wage that an illegal will. Get rid of the illegal aliens, allow the market forces of supply and demand to dicate the wages and—PRESTO—Americans doing all those jobs you think they don’t want to do. Case in point, the article I cited. So, is it that you are against Americans making a higher wage or for corporations unlawfully keeping wages artificially low to compete unfairly and improve profits?
Speaking personally, I just want as many foreigners as possible touching magellan01’s food before he gets it.
As far as wages go, for every American worker making a new and improved salary in the meat industry, some American consumer is priced out of the Christmas ham market. The wage/price connection both giveth and taketh away. Of course, it hasn’t been established that the wages will rise, that the enthusiastic applicants will take the jobs they’re offered (if they’re offered), or that they’ll last in them if they do: it’s either ignorant or dishonest to present low wages as the only or even the worst of the bad conditions meat industry employees face.
I don’t think anyone would claim that no American would ever take a job an illegal immigrant would take, but with unemployment the way it is, it is extremely difficult to retain Americans and keep such positions fully staffed with Americans. The jobs that illegal immigrants do are the least attractive and the lowest paying and 99% of the American workforce can do better. And will when they are given the opportunity. Which in the current labor market is quite often.
Well, there are illegals who would do my job for less than minimum wage.
Do you dispute that?
… cuz I don’t want to do it…
I have a story for you…a case I’m working on right now. I can’t naem too many details, but my firm’s client has been advertising several hundred slots for unskilled jobs in several economically depressed areas in the South, paying well above minimum wage (and a salary that 2 State Labor Departments have determined meets the prevailing wage for the position and location). I myself have placed ads in 3 local newspapers and on a website for Katrina survivors.
How many applicants have they gotten for these jobs? A grand total of one, and his was one of the most illiterate job applications I’ve ever seen in my life. And it may be noteworthy that he left blank the box asking whether he is legally authorized to work in the U.S. So this company, if they want to remain solvent, has no choice but to hire foreigners. (And they are doing it legally - there’s a special category for seasonal jobs.)
Eva Luna, Immigration Paralegal
In the “depressed South”… nearby we are “lucky” enough to have a Wal*Mart distribution center.
I saw an ad in the paper recently offering $19/hour for 36 hours in two days… meaning 18 on, 8 off, then 18 on again.
If it weren’t an hour away, I’d jump on that shit… and I still might.
I don’t think I’m disputing your main point, Eva (sorry if it came off that way, but what was your main point again?). We probably even speak of the same company. The distribution center thing I mentioned above is certainly NOT “skilled labor”. I have friends who’ve tried it. According to them, it’s hardcore backbreaking WORK, with minimal breaks.
I’m just saying that even here in the “depressed South” there are well paying jobs available. Surely you aren’t advocating letting illegals work at our local Wal*Mart distribution center?
(I’m neither W*M nor illegal)
/aside:
What’s the question again?
That there are supposedly people who claim that Mexicans would work cheaper than an unskilled American man could afford to support his family for?
Well, duh.
Subcontract, baby!
All you need to do is swing by a town with a chicken plant (Forest, perhaps) and you can take your pick of immigrants.
-Joe
What people forget about in this debate; most illegal aliens work in the “underground” (i.e. cash-only) economy. this means:
- they do not pay income or SS taxes
- they do not pay for health insurance
So, we get their labor “cheap”-but it is all an illusion; because once they get injured, who pays for their medical care?
(a) YOU DO! There was an incident here in Boston-an illegal (Brazilian) contruction worker fell off a ladder. His medical bills came to over $42,000, which he never paid-it was paid for by the taxpayers.
So illegal immigrant orkers cost us all twice-we get to pay the taxes that they don’t pay, and (2), when they get injured, we get to pick up the cost of their medical care. plus, when we deport them, we pay for their transist home. Not to mention; the unemployment we have to pay American workers, who are forced out of jobs by the illegals.
Not such a good deal after all!
I don’t care if they are illegal, no one deserves to be orked.
While I’m sure that illegal immigrants would gladly take any job (whether an American would be willing to do it or not), there are lots of jobs that very few Americans are willing to do, and that are filleds mostly by illegal (and sometimes legal) immigrants. I invite anyone to drive thru the agricultural areas of CA or look in the kitchens of restaraunts for who is bussing dishes. You might find a few American citizens in the latter type of job, and you’ll probably also find quite a few legal immigrants, too. That’s just for starters. Then we have the gardners, the maids, the hotel workers, etc.
So, yes, saying that they do jobs Americans won’t do is slightly off the mark, but not by much.
This story is very dramatic, but I’d like to see what kind of applicants they were actually getting and how many they actually hired.
I used to work for a very high-turnover place. We’d occasionally do job fairs like this - pretty much cattle calls - it wouldn’t be uncommon to take 10 or 15 out of 300 because everyone else failed drug screening (required by clients) or background screening (due to felony convictions, violent crimes, or “crimes of dishonesty”).
I’m sure, in the jury of the press, we would be told that surely of 300 applicants, if we were desperate, only hiring 10-15 meant we weren’t trying. That’s just not the case. There is a certain pool of “unemployables” that will try to get hired anywhere they think they can sneak through, and this type of case is exactly one where you would see a lot of that kind of applicant.
again, you are right-many of the jobs you mentioned are taken by illegals. What nobody questions, though is WHY. The fact is, farmers hire illegals because they can get the same labor for less money. There are few (if any) penalties for hiring illegals. the other thing is: most of the illegals are willing to work for less,because they (unlike Americans) don’t file tax returns-they are “invisible” to the system. untill we take steps to control the underground economy (which operates untaxed), we can forget about controlling illegal immigration.
What makes me laugh-the Washington elite who hire illegal nannies, gardeners, handymen, etc., are SHOCKED when they find out that they are supposed to be paying SS, taxes, etc., on the people they hire. SURELY they don’t think the laws apply to THEM?