Over in the BBQ “What were you THINKING?” thread has been a lengthy debate over whether it’s OK to call women “guys.” The mods want us to start a whole new thread when it gets like that, so here we are.
Many times when I was out with another woman, if somebody addressed us as “guys,” I’d say out loud “We’re not guys.” After so many years of it my resistance is worn down; although I may not object vocally, I still hate it. I’m heartened to see I’m not the only one who feels that way.
I’m not found of the Southernism “y’all.” I much prefer “yous,” which comes from Ireland originally, and is formed logically. Let me know what yous think.
Strictly speaking, “guy” is only somebody “guying” or being “guyed,” i.e. wearing that V for Vendetta mask.
I blame Rita Moreno and The Electric Company. By High School “you guys” as a collective “you” had become habit until it was trained out of me later in life.
For the last couple of years, I’ve been actively trying to be conscious of this, and trying hard to not use “guys” when I’m talking with a group of both men and women, though I still slip up from time to time, thanks to decades of habit.
Even though a lot of people of both genders (younger ones, in particular, AIUI) see “guys” as a neutral term, I now realize that that’s not universal.
I really hate it that our language sometimes demands that we concern ourselves with gender when it has no bearing whatsoever on the situation at hand. “Guys” has failed for some folks. So I try to use “folks.”
Female here - I’ve been using it since grade school in the early '60s (and remember being corrected by a teacher for using it for girls). I’ve never seen it as objectionable. At this point it’s gender-neutral, and I personally don’t care that it used to refer only to males. I’d have to try really hard to see it as a male term anymore. I don’t personally know anyone who finds it objectionable.
There are no good alternatives in common use. I refuse to use “y’all” or “yous” or “youse” because I’m not a Southern hick. I’m not terribly fond of “folks” as far as using it myself, but I guess there’s nothing wrong with it.
Both of those are extremely common here in Philly. We are not Southern hicks. Decades ago, a book was published on this- Philly Phonics, Now Youse Can Talk Like Us!
I try not to use it if I don’t know my audience, but with most of the people I hang out with, “guys” is used by women to refer to plural groups of women, too, so I use it freely. Hell, my wife calls my two daughters “you guys” or “guys” as in “guys, stop making that racket.”
Yep I’m from MI. We’ve always used, “guys,” that way. I’ve met a few women who object, but not many. I hate folks. Politions
use it; I understand why, but I don’t like it. I’m not from the south or the ares that use youse, yinz, whatever. It’s really how the language works here. If someone objects out loud I don’t do it, but may mentally roll my eyes.
Here’s a good post from that other thread, that might give pause to the eye-rolling:
Maybe some women object but have given up saying so (like, apparently, the OP of this thread). Maybe some women are used to it and don’t think much about it consciously, but the cumulative effect seeps into their consciousness somewhere and it doesn’t feel right. I don’t presume to know how all women feel about any issue. It’s not hard for me to avoid calling a mixed group “guys,” I have that much free will anyway. Some people seem stuck in “but we’ve always done it this way.”
I don’t generally use “guys” to refer to a group that includes women, but I don’t pay a lot of attention to it, and it doesn’t bother me when other people do. I’ve never heard a woman complain about it. If anyone did, I would certainly take extra care around that person.
I have to say though, the last paragraph of the OP really undercuts their entire argument. It brands the speaker as someone who clings to silly outmoded word definitions in defiance of common usage. If that wasn’t a joke of some sort, I would advise the OP to omit that part of their argument in the future, if trying to actually get people take them seriously.
It might vary generationally. The high school students I teach (all girls) don’t hesitate to refer to themselves and peers as “guys”. They also use “guys” to mean specifically male people. Context determines which meaning is meant. For instance, “What are you guys doing?” could be said to anyone, but “I don’t understand guys” would refer to boys.
On the y’all issue, is it okay to address a single individual as y’all? Or should the use of y’all be reserved to when you are addressing more than one person?
And how many people have to be in a group before you can properly switch from y’all to all y’all?
I’ve heard people insist that “y’all” is only ever plural, but the first time I heard it in the wild was in 1972 and directed at me, singly, by a fellow who’d just arrived from Lubbock.