I'm bad. I did a bad thing. Go ahead and yell at me.

In My Humble Opinion
21

SexyWriter - one of my closest friends and her husband have two Samoyeds. They’re not small dogs, even if you give 'em a crew cut. They bought an SUV because the only way they could get the two of them, the two dogs, their a small child (in a car seat) into one vehicle, is if it was a large vehicle. So I understand.

But I, too, can’t pay attention to the road ahead unless I can see it. So if you don’t mind when I try real hard to be in front of you rather than behind you, we’re good to go. Too often, when I try to squeeze my Honda Accord in front of an SUV in traffic, they take it personally, but it’s not personal. I just want to be able to see ahead.

But now to respond to a misplaced accusation of selfishness:

I don’t have much patience for people who decide it’s OK to block my view of the traffic ahead, simply because they wanted a car on steroids.

Screw the gas mileage and any of that other stuff. While driving, there is one Prime Directive that overrules all others: Pay Fucking Attention to the road ahead (and behind, and alongside, for that matter). I tend to drive a little faster than average, so for me it’s mostly the road ahead.

By watching the road ahead, I can see situations while they’re still developing, that may or may not ultimately be a problem, and respond (by slowing down, by changing lanes, even by exiting to another road) well before I’m right on top of them. I think this makes me a safer driver, which is important to me: this is the only body I’ve got.

But when the car ahead of me typically prevents me from seeing the road ahead, all that goes out the window, and I’m driving half-blind, no matter how much I try to watch the road.

While some need SUVs (or minivans, or full-sized pickups), right now SUVs are half the new cars sold in America. The rest of those people, quite frankly, are the selfish pricks in this story. They are, in effect, placing a tax on me - taking away something I used to have, and took for granted: my ability to see the road ahead through and around the car in front of me. And just because they want this behemoth on wheels.

You say I’m being selfish and arrogant because I want to be able to see in traffic, and be able to respond to the road up ahead. Well, that’s a positively ridiculous idea. When I’m on the road, nothing’s more important than my safety.

I suppose the same could be said by the SUV drivers. But the difference is, I’m protecting my safety in a manner that doesn’t interfere with others’ ability to protect theirs.

That seems to come right down to the core definition of selfishness: are you meeting your own needs in a way that (a) respects and tries to accommodate the needs of others, or (b) tells everyone else to take a flying leap?

Having put it that way, I’ll be damned if I see how I’m being the selfish one here.

Nobody made this distinction.

It’s just that SUVs are the most common element of the class that includes full-sized pickups, minivans, etc., and (accurately or not) it’s perceived that people more frequently tend to buy pickups and minivans because they periodically need them. But there’s no doubt that millions of Americans who could fit just as well into a family sedan or station wagon are in SUVs instead. When half the new-car purchases are SUVs, how is anything else possible?

So SUVs are not just the natural representative of the class, but they’re quite naturally the lightning rod on which people focus the ire that they’re really directing at the entire class.

22

I’m glad we each see where the other is coming from, Hamlet at least as far as us not disliking each other for having differing opinions. Personally, I drive a beat-up Pontiac with a four-cyllinder engine, so this isn’t really about what I drive. It’s more about freedom of choice, as I see it. Sexy, I apologize for hijacking your thread, and honestly didn’t intend to create an SUV debate forum. Drive what you want, just drive intelligently - which I’m confident you’ll do.

I looked at the links you provided (the third one is broken) and it all still boils down to opinion. The facts and figures presented (and they are there, you just have to wade through a couple of paragraphs of rhetoric and alarmist exclamations to get to them) show that SUV’s are only a minor cause of pollution that have become a popular target of activists.

Here’s my favorite quote, from the suv.org link: “Passenger cars and trucks account for about 20 percent of all U.S. CO2 emissions” Hmmm…so, we’ll make an incredibly small impact on that by keeping people from buying SUV’s instead of trying to fix the other 80%? If every SUV on the road today suddenly turned into a Honda Civic, this wouldn’t improve overall CO2 emissions by more than 3 or 4 percent at the most. There are other areas that need to be addressed which would have a greater impact - industrial pollution, for one. The “more pollution” angle is a pretty weak argument.

Now, as for the safety issue, wouldn’t it make more sense for other car types to become more safe and survivable than to expect everyone to be as vulnerable as you? Any highway crash you get into is going to be bad, whether you hit an SUV or a Honda…or an 18-wheeler. The argument that SUV’s are bad because their occupants are more protected is kind of like trying to ban motorcycle helmets because not everyone likes to wear them, so everyone should be at the same risk.

Oh, and one more quick jab - just because you buy a particular vehicle because of its ability to haul people and assorted stuff does not mean that it must be filled to capacity at all times. It means that when you need that capability, it’s there. This usefulness does not factor into every SUV owner’s decision to buy one, but it seems to have played a part in Sexy Writer’s. Personally, I don’t expect her to have her dog and groceries in the truck at all times when she’s driving it. I’m sure that would be very inconvenient and would annoy the dog.

23

BTW - I knew the whole bad driver issue would eventually raise its head. Dickweeds buy all types of cars, not just SUV’s. I’ve been cut off by more compact cars than trucks on the road, and I live in Texas… Rude driving is caused by the driver, not the car.

24

Jeebus, matt, what do you think of me? I own four cars, three of which are large, rear-drive V-8 carbureted products over ten years old. :smiley:

I’m not going to yell at SexyWriter, or anybody else who wants an SUV. I don’t like them either (that’s why I have a full size station wagon). But then again, it’s not my money they’re spending and therefore it’s none of my damn buisness what you want to drive. Enjoy your Explorer in good health.

25

Darn you, Matt!

I spent that entire post thinking, “I’m gonna smash him. Those objection apply to ALL cars and other sprawl-inducing things. He’s MINE!”

And then you shut me down.

Darn you!

26

Yeah, cuz people in cars never do those things. :rolleyes:

Amen.
And SexyWriter, hell an Explorer isn’t even that big. Next time you should get an Expedition and really piss these people off. Or maybe an Excursion.:wink:

But anyway, this isn’t a debate or the Pit, so forget everything I just said. Let me just say what I meant to say in the first place:

Buying an SUV doesn’t make you bad, Sexy, but if you can think of anything else you’ve done recently that does make you bad, I’ll come back in and yell at you. :slight_smile:

stv

27

Hmmm…a few things.

  1. I don’t care if you hijacked my thread. At least I have something interesting to read.

  2. It’s true. I could have carted my dog around in a Beetle. However, carting my dog around COMFORTABLY is another issue. Yes…a completely selfish one.

  3. Anyone who wants to pull ahead of me, by all means, go ahead! I’m never really in a big hurry and I’m quite polite about letting others go ahead and VERY careful about pedestrians, motorcycles, bikes, etc. Of course, SOMEONE will likely have to be behind me at sometime. I would like to kindly suggest to everyone that if you are more than three inches from my bumper, you will be able to see around me much better.

  4. Do the emissions requirements in MA make any difference to anyone? They’ve recently become more strict and I had to spend 40 minutes having my car tested to make sure it wasn’t polluting.

  5. I’m a nice person. I recycle. I turn my lights off and my heat down. I’m responsible and generous and I do volunteer work. I’m a vegetarian about 90 % of the time. But I like cars, dammit. I like comfy rides and quick engines and neat gadgets. I can’t help it!!!

  6. I’m sure I’ve done something bad recently. I try not to keep track of those things, since the paper I’d have to keep a list on would, in effect, be killing trees.

L

28

Guess you missed this part of my post:

So :rolleyes: right back, eh?

Oh, and the pothole-swerving example was in there because unless you’re talking about something you can lose a small car in, SUVs don’t need to swerve for those. My husband drove a friend’s Land Rover across a plowed field once and it felt like he was driving on flat blacktop, the thing handled the ruts and furrows that well.

29

There’s a big difference between a plowed field, which is made of soft, freshly-turned dirt, and a pothole in an asphalt and concrete street. Hitting a pothole has the potential to mess up the suspension of just about anything short of a Humvee.

30

Only partially right. I use 4 wheel drive EVERY DAY for about 6months out of the year. Some people really do need the 4 wheel drive ability.

Between my wife and I we have 2 SUVs, one beater 4x4 plow truck and a 4x4 tractor.

Also, I do a lot of work on my house. The truck isn’t really road worthy anymore so I use my Pathfinder to pick up dry-wall (it will fit inside on an angle) and basic building materials. I had 8 sheets of plywood on my roof rack once. I doubt you would want to do that with a Honda Civic.

You see, it can be a personal choice based on NEED.

Oh, and congrats SexyWriter, you know what your needs are better than anyone else.

31

Nitpicking here, but the dirt in the field was hard at the time. And considering the offroad capabilities of most SUVs, I find it hard to believe that bumping through a shallow pothole would be such a terrible thing, much less noticeable. If it’s true, my condolences, as even the realistic SUV commercials are wildly misrepresenting the vehicles’ capabilities.

(Regardless, a hearty middle-finger salute to the last SUV driver who nearly side-swiped me pulling this stunt. Learn how wide your vehicle is at least, you jerk.)

32

Please to clarify… Are you saying that if a SUV hits my Hyundai Accent that it will not be worse than if another Compact cars hits me???

Also, you have not addressed the issue of the “freedom of Choice” that others are exercising limiting mine. Are you stating that all cars should just be huge, and that my choice to drive a small fuel-efficient car is just a bad one and should not be allowed (in essence that the SUV is closer to “correct’ car technology and that the compact car should be considered obsolete?)

Also, and I have asked this in another thread, could anyone please tell me what need the SUV fills as a vehicle for the urban/suburban driver that a Minivan or Station Wagon does not.

33

enipla - my comments were limited by my experience in the Chicago suburbs. Lived in Chicago area most of my life, and personally have never perceived the need for 4-wheel drive. 25 years of driving and I’ve never been in a serious accident, whatever the weather. Knock on wood.

Moreover, it is quite rare for me to see an SUV that is anywhere near maxed out in terms of hauling capacity. Either in terms of kids or gear. Heck, except for those owned by tradesmen and contractors, they generally show no signs of wear other than a standard car.

My personal preference is to drive a small car. I feel more comfortable having maneuverability and space around my car. I feel a little nervous in trucks - where I have more difficulty seeing my vehicle’s exterior dimensions. However, when I rent trucks for hauling, I enjoy the fact that my need to care about such things is somewhat tempered by the fact that other folk had better get out of my way, cause they would incur more damage than me. I guess I resent it a little bit that I feel somewhat exposed to risk driving a smaller car surrounded by land yachts with bumpers at my eye level.

Also, I’m 6’4". I’m always a little surprised when I see slightlly built women driving these monster Excusions and Navigators around. Their choice.

As you observe, everyone has their own perception of their needs. I’ve had dogs ranging from 65 to 90 pounds for the past 20 years. They fit just fine in my Datsun B210, my Olds Cutlass, my GrandAm, my Taurus wagon, etc. Right now, 5 people and a golden fit fine in my Matrix (small wagon). Tho any gear would require use of the van.

Finally, if you want expanded carrying capacity on occasion, you could investigate a roof rack (yes, I acknowledge weight and size limits), or short term rental of a truck//van.

Just curious - why would someone without offroad needs choose an SUV over a minivan? Most minivans provide seating for up to 7 people, compared to 5 in an Explorer. And if you remove the rear seat, you have more cargo room than an SUV.

I suspect a major part of it is image.

I question the safety concern. Heck, buy a 1970 Catalina or Bonneville, and feel safe that anything you hit will be half a block away from you! Moreover, what kind of accidents are you folk planning on getting into?

I wonder what percentage of SUV drivers prefer a vehicle that handles like a truck over one that handles like a car.

34

But the only way to haul two mountain bikes, drive on unplowed back roads, have any chance of seeing over all the minivans ect, and survive the impact of a red light running full size Chicago cab, or highly anti-social Chicago busdriver was a SUV. Turns out to be a great replacement for my Honda Civic which was not really all that great at any of the above. Mmmmm Nissan Pathfinder goodness. . . . .

-me

35

Pick Ups are ok?

who said that?

I HATE them as as much as I hate SUVS.

36

Thats odd… I didn’t know we were only supposed to buy vehicles that fit our needs and not what we want. Hmmm… I dont think people NEED expensive luxury cars… I dont think people NEED Vets and Vipers and sports cars that are capable of exceeding the speed limit.

No… I guess EVERYONE who doesnt NEED a truck or SUV should just buy a car that will ONLY reach 65 mph so they dont break hwy speed limits… and… well HELL… stick shift METROS for all!!

37

I would say most SUVs and pickups out there don’t necessarily have off-road capabilities, or 4x4 for that matter, and for whatever sins you can think of for SUVs and their drivers, trying to save their vehicle’s suspension or tires shouldn’t be one of them. At least they’re paying attention. :slight_smile:

And it would be just as easy to get sideswiped by a Honda Accord trying to avoid a pothole.

I’m sorry, I hope it doesn’t seem I’m picking on you DeniseV. (Even though you seem to be picking really hard at us SUVers.)
:Waits for this to be sashayed off to the Pit:

stv

38

Large dogs and SUV go together
in HELL!

39

Dinsdale -

Some people may not need SUV’s based on perceived needs. But the needs and uses can be many. It took my wife and I a year to figure out what type of SUV for her to get. No other car/body type was even considered.

I am also 6’4". Its a lot easier to get in and out of a SUV than a small car for me. I wouldn’t buy a Sedan for this reason alone.

Snow, 4 wheel drive, higher ground clearance, hauling stuff around, my dogs comfort, pulling people out of ditches, entry ease, power, towing capability are some or my reasons that I choose an SUV. Any one of these would make me choose an SUV over a regular car. My wife choose the Grand Jeep Cherokee over the Liberty because in the Liberty the rear seats don’t fold flat. Why? For our dog (Lab, Miss Alpine). We aren’t rich but we could afford the difference.

My SUV is a ’93 Pathfinder. We are middle class and generally drive our cars to dust. I still have my 1976 Chevy Pick up.

Anyway, I was just trying to demonstrate that there are a lot of reasons a person may choose a SUV over a Mini-Van or whatever. Any new car is a big purchase, we will always get what serves us best that we can afford and I think other people do too.

You just don’t always see the reason.

We decide for ourselves and drive the market. Simple enough. I just hope I can still buy a decent 4 wheel drive 10 years from now.

Sorry if I seemed snippy in my first post. There are a lot of reasons to go with an SUV. And it’s not always a status thing.

40

SUV’s make the baby Jesus cry.:wink:

…sorry, it had to be said.
Virgin Post!!:eek: