I'm not complaining about my Thread being closed, I'm just explaining why I did it,

[DSeid]

@BigT

There’s something there that could be interesting about how attraction works: Do we all tend to think our partners are more attractive? Is that maybe only for men, or even cis-het men? That could spin off to “is there any reason this might be?” Or, if it’s not true, is there any reason why the OP might have come to that conclusion?

Relatedly there was an article in today’s NYT about a new show (Kevin Can F*ck Himself) that plays with the schlubby white guy hot wife sitcom trope, placing it as manifestation of white male entitlement.

How men and women self assess their attractiveness, how they assess the attractiveness of their partners, what importance is placed on that, and if there is gender dimorphism (or racial component) to that within our society, may not have been asked by the OP but should not be off limits to discussion and even polling.

(I’d be interested in simultaneous assessments by both partners and some reasonable outside observer. I’d bet on a gender related difference but no clue to what the difference would be! Do men or women under or over assess themselves more?)

[DSeid]

FWIW articles that might address this discuss “mate value discrepancy” for example here:

Female perception of a partner’s mate value discrepancy and controlling...

[Cervaise]

@Aspenglow

Objectifying is never a good place to start.

Of course. I’d say, though, that the potential minefield is quite a bit bigger. When I saw the original thread was closed, I nodded: of course, that was an obvious, predictable, and correct moderating action.

But then I thought about it a little bit, wondering about threads that ask people to compare themselves to their spouses/partners on non-physically-objectifying qualities. And most of the examples that came to mind were pretty squicky. For example:

“Who’s smarter, you or your partner?” There’s a way to have this conversation carefully and respectfully (I mean, I genuinely think my wife is smarter than me, and I’m not ashamed or afraid to explain why), but it’s easy to imagine how this could go off the rails.

“Who’s a better driver, you or your partner?” Same as above, with the added garnish of a longstanding sexist cliche.

“Who’s a better parent, you or your partner?” Again, this could be done, but it could get ugly fast.

“Who’s a better cook, you or your partner?” This was the only example I could think of that would probably resist a drift into conflict, because cooking is a relatively value-neutral skill whose gendered-role assumptions have greatly faded in recent years. Also, while people may feel vaguely guilty about never having learned to cook, the feeling isn’t so strong that they wouldn’t be willing to joke about it (“I can burn water!”).

Essentially, anything that digs into the connection between a joined couple and asks them to make value judgments about one another is very tricky. It could be an interesting and enlightening discussion, and it’s not impossible to have that conversation. It’s just… tricky.

That’s my perception, anyway.

[Spice_Weasel]

As a woman I was disappointed that my opinion was not solicited, but I wasn’t offended in the least.

To be sure, some offensive things might have been said in response, but on the flip side, some interesting sociological discussions could have come out of it.

But that’s the problem with keeping acceptable topics in threads so narrow and policed. By recent standards, anyone who started talking about sexism would be modded for threadshitting or going off topic. It just stifles conversation. I don’t like it.

[puzzlegal]

@BigT

I think the better framing would be to ask everyone if they feel like their partner is more attractive than they are, and to then have separate poll options by gender and sexuality. Make it clear that this isn’t about comparing your spouse or SO to others. And I don’t really see much point in focusing on physical attractiveness in this case.

I tend to agree with this. And i would also have been okay with v

@Little_Nemo

If you are in a long term relationship with another person, who do you feel an objective third party would find more physically attractive? You or your partner?

Please identify your gender and the gender of your partner.

It’s potentially an interesting question, and neither framing makes me feel like I’m an object being addressed for hotness, which the op kinda did.

So i also agree with BigT on

@BigT

The issue I saw was the framing. It was framed as being just about men and their wives, and the language in the OP set up comparing physical attributes. Nothing about the underlying idea says that “women are a trophies to be compared,” but that’s the way it came off given your OP.

But i do think that questions tangential to those one could be quite interesting to discuss.

[DrDeth]

Well, I hate that term, and why could it not just be 'spouse"? Leave sex, gender, etc out of it.

@Riemann

How does inserting “cis-het” numerous times makes this anything different? It still has no more depth than men discussing whether their wives are “hot”, and still apparently loaded with the sexist stereotype that women are trophies valued principally for their physical attractiveness.

And what’s the purpose of inserting cis-het? To show that you are aware of the existence of LGBT people, yet to explicitly exclude them? Why? I see no problem in principle addressing certain questions only to certain subsets of people, but not this.

Exactly.

How about:

“Do you think your spouse or partner is more attractive than you are?” Optional- “What do you identify as?”

Thus it is inclusive. Anyone of any choice/gender/sex can answer. They can specify that or not.

And “attractive” is better than “hot” , IMHO. Still, somewhat objectifying, but the question is not required and if anyone did not like something that mild (not that there is anything wrong with that), they can just not participate. However, of course “attractive” can include charm and personality, if you want.

@BigT

I think the better framing would be to ask everyone if they feel like their partner is more attractive than they are, and to then have separate poll options by gender and sexuality. Make it clear that this isn’t about comparing your spouse or SO to others.

Right.

@Little_Nemo

If you are in a long term relationship with another person, who do you feel an objective third party would find more physically attractive? You or your partner?

Please identify your gender and the gender of your partner.

This also works, except make that last optional.

[UltraVires]

I know it is an already lost battle, but I liked this board better when the rule was that you could discuss absolutely any topic at all so long as you were respectful and followed the board rules. Especially with a title like “Who’s the hotter one: You or your wife?”

That puts everyone on notice what the thread is about and if discussions of physical attraction are not your thing because you feel it is objectifying, then just keep scrolling and pick out another thread that is more to your liking.

[DemonTree]

@Spice_Weasel

As a woman I was disappointed that my opinion was not solicited, but I wasn’t offended in the least.

To be sure, some offensive things might have been said in response, but on the flip side, some interesting sociological discussions could have come out of it.

But that’s the problem with keeping acceptable topics in threads so narrow and policed. By recent standards, anyone who started talking about sexism would be modded for threadshitting or going off topic. It just stifles conversation. I don’t like it.

Seconded. I thought there was potentially an interesting conversation there, and was kind of disappointed to see the thread was already closed. @BigT should go ahead and create a thread using his formulation.