I certainly get the impression there are more Dems than Repubs here, but beyond that the definitions get pretty fuzzy. In terms of lefties, I doubt you could find more than a handful of posters (if that) who support nationalization of all economic activity, or the suppression of income differences, private property, inheritance etc. There does seem to be a lot of support for universal health care and a minimum wage.
In terms of righties, I see a lot of nationalism and flag waving from time to time, a lot of posters supporting intrusive government and a couple of posters who’ve suggested that voting rights should be restricted along various criteria, but I doubt you’d find too many posters supporting a police state or calling for the creation of an empire.
A lot of the more heated debates seem to focus on issues that don’t necessarily have anything to do with politics - abortion, gay marriage - but for some reason opinion still seems to split along party lines.
Don’t forget that a lot of political debate is thought experiment though - I’m personally a strong believer in personal responsibility and individual freedom, so I guess ideologically I should lean to the right, but in practice I believe that social cohesion is more important than my philosophical leanings, so I tend to lean left. I’m basically anti-abortion, but don’t see what makes it the government’s business, so I’ll lean towards whichever party interferes the least.
I’d have to conclude that the board is generally pretty moderate, but the political discussions rarely broach a leftie agenda - nationalization, labor organization, taxation of financial transactions, capital gains tax vs income tax etc - so moderate, but firmly right of center.
This, to me, is unfortunate. While I might not agree with your viewpoint, one of the primary reasons I come here and read threads is to understand what people with different thoughts and beliefs than my own are saying about issues I care about.
I find in my normal everyday life, I either avoid talking about politically charged issues or my friends and family all agree with my viewpoints, and we have great ‘yes-man’ conversations about the issues. Here on the boards, you have a safe and (mostly) friendly environment where (most of the time) you can get a real good debate going without it deteriorating into a “You’re and idiot to think like that” type of situation.
Am I idealistic? Sure, but I say Righties, keep on postin’
The explanation I heard is that the Straight Dope is published in left leaning (in the US) newspapers, so there is some leftist tendency among readers of the column who have registered on the board. We had a thread a while ago that sums up the numbers and also links to a graph.
Depends on how you define “young”. A plot of ages (of Dopers who admit their age) shows peak birth years at 1973 (appropriately) and 1982. We have plenty of members who are in their 30s and 40s, so it’s not like a majority are college aged.
~UA, who is quite leftist on social issues but is good friends with a southern conservative.
It’s probably true that liberals outnumber conservatives on this board. However, remember that:
We don’t know that for sure. Surveys that ask for responses are statistically flawed. Those who respond will be those who feel strongly, and don’t mind telling 50,000 strangers where they stand. Private people, apathetic people, and those in the Great Middle will not respond.
The conservatives here make up for their (probably) smaller numbers by their ferocity. They’ll fearlessly defend their positions.
Neither side can get away with unsubstantiated assertions. If you take a stand here, be prepared to explain yourself. If you assert a “fact” with no evidence, folks will demand that you “Cite?”
They’re pretty poor losers, making lots of claims about gloom and doom and fear ‘for the children’.
I pretty much hate the fact that we’ve got just a two party system and if you happen to feel that you don’t wanna change leadership in the middle of a conflict, you’ve gotta take that with a half dozen or so party planks you wouldn’t normally vote for.
I’ve been unaligned for years, and just picked Democrat this last time to give the local Dem a vote for senate (didn’t as much care for the Republican candidate)
I find it curious, mathematically, that Bush won despite all the liberal advertising against him.
I think this is because the liberals came at this election like the '85 Chicago Bears and still lost - it really is difficult to see why we lost (The explanation that it was simply because they got more votes than we did is like the losing coach in a game explaining that they lost by scoring fewer points - it only confirms WHAT happened not HOW or WHY it happened).
As for this board, your initial guess of 60/20/20 was probably about right. I can see several explanations for this.
The groups that are usually conservative (the rich, the religious, the suburban) are under-represented here.
The Internet is generally left of center - internet users are generally young and urban. Reaclearpolitics.com may be a great site (I admit this even though I disagree with it 80+% of the time) but it is most assuredly not representative.
Lotsa professors. To become a professor you have to spend 5-8 years beyond a bachelors’ degree in academia (more liberal than the general public); this also involves turning down much more lucrative job offers in the meantime. Those who care a lot about low taxes and small government don’t generally want to do (usually government-sponsored) research for a bare pittance.
Don’t forget that the SDMB is not limited to the United States, so you get a fair number of international Dopers here, almost all of whom are from places more liberal than the clique of American right-wing extremists known as the GOP.
Also factor in that a number of us who are libertarian/conservative in some areas are quite liberal in others. Why get involved in a “discussion” with the far-lefties when a) you will just get yelled at, b) you will get dog-piled, and c) you won’t change anyone’s mind anyway. I’m not going to waste my time arguing with a bunch of people I know only as electrons. My time is much better spent influencing the 140+ students I see every day, and who are much more malleable than the liberals around here.
I sure love reading some of the debates, though. Some of the Lefties around here are sharp!
Perhaps it’s because modern conservatism has come to rely more and more upon ideology and emotion and less upon reason for advancing its agenda? Which might make it difficult for many conservatives to enjoy participation in a forum that values reason above all else?
It seems to me that there’s been a steady silencing of conservative voices on this board as the Iraq adventure has gone farther and farther south. And I take heart in that. Because I think it means that there are more and more intelligent conservatives who are no longer able in good conscience to maintain ideological purity in the face of a contradictory reality. They can’t mount a coherent defense of the administration’s policies, so they choose silence instead.
Why do you feel so lonely? Because you’re wrong. You’re wrong about everything. Everything you’ve ever said or thought was wrong. You can’t being wrong. You’re a tightie rightie.
As for the 60-20-20 figure, I think you’re a bit off. The board is definitely more left than right, but I think there are more moderates than 20%. It’s just that the politicos on the board are much louder about their beliefs than those who are more centrist.
Well, when I said that I felt lonely I meant from an ideological perspective. On the other hand while I enjoy those (my wife would say prefer) with different perspectives I disagree that conservative, libertarian, or liberal is only skin deep. I find that it colors a multitude of atitudes about a variety of issues. For example here are some issues generally considered non political that I feel strongly about, and usually find myself at odds with liberals over:
I generally prefer dogs over cats (although I still like cats). I’ve found that many liberals tend to prefer cats.
I think fast food is bad for you, but I don’t want to see fast food (or any other restaurants cut portion size). IF they were also going to cut prices then it would be fine. However, I suspect they will keep prices the same, and still cut the portions. There are many days where I can at least feel full on the $2.00 I can afford to spend at McCDonalds.
I hate smoking (or even being around smoke), but I think that restaurants on private property have the constitutional right to allow it. I find that most on the right (and an ever increasing majority on the right) are for banning the activity even in private businesses.
I believe that Gays should be constitutionally protected from most discrimination. However, I also believe that I have a right to believe (without being labeled a bigot) that their activity is morally wrong (just as I think many have the valid right to consider me morally reprobate for wanting to legalize prostitution).
I believe that abortion in most of it’s forms is the killing of a human being. I believe that it is a moral wrong that rivals slavery. I like to think that had I been alive in 1845 that I would have opposed slavery even if it made me unpopular. However, I realize that it cannot be made illegal without causing social unrest. Therefore I seek initiatives that will reduce it’s occurance (such as paying mother’s who would otherwise consider abortion to not have the abortion, despite the social problems this would create). Also, I believe that since men can be compelled to pay child support (under penalty of jail) that it is also there liberty (if not their body) which is at stake with regard to an unborn child.
I believe that the best way to a clean non polluted environment is a highly technological society. Just as we pollute less than the Eastern European Countries who were stuck with 1950’s style Industry in part due to authoritarian socialism, I believe that the technology of tommorow will pollute less than what we have today. However, I believe that the quickest, road to such a soiciety lies in mostly, free market capitalism. Furthermore, I believe that the increased productivity that such technology fosters is the only way to achieve these goals without sacrafising standards of living.
I think that I have the Constitutional right to put three cars up on blocks in my yard and a recliner on the porch. While I hope not to purchase a home next to someone who does this, I would prefer the risk of that occuring over the sacrifise of private property rights. On the other hand I believe that I don’t have the right to dump toxic waste in my back yard since this leaches off my property into the water of others.
While I try to dress nice I believe that the homeless guy in the street is also worthy of being treated with respect and dignity. I believe this because I also believe that God created all life and that we are all equal before God. Therefore, I don’t consider the life Stephen Hawkings to be one iota more valable than the profounding retarded kids I take care of on Saturday.
My point is that political leanings are not merely superficial, skin deep feelings. They tend to correlate with strong opinions about almost every facet of life.
Hard to read the thrust of that statement. :dubious: but we DO live in a place where the majority rules. (hanging chads aside.) Unfortunately we try to make things black or white (or Red or Blue) when things rarely ever are.
Uh, my wife and son were yelling at me on those last couple of paraghaphs and they should read “the life of Stephen Hawkings is not more valable than the profoundly retarded children that I care for at my home healthcare job on Saturdays.”
That goes with what I was going to say. “We’re here, but we’re not as loud”
I kind of resent the idea that people who are young are liberal. I’m not, I’m 27 and I’ve been voting Republican since I was old enough to cast a ballot; my baby brother was finally old enough to vote in a presidental election this past election, and he voted for Bush, too (we’re both moderates, rather than ultra conservative, though). In fact, one of the new casts that tried to puzzle out why Kerry lost made note that 40% of 18 to 29 year old voters voted for Bush. A minority to be sure, but not a vast enough one to automatically assume that young=liberal.
Roland, you are not alone. I’m right there with you (for what little comfort that might be ) on #1, 2, 3, 4, most of 5, hardcore on 6 and 7, and on a fundamental level 8.
Let’s take a page from the Liberal Handbook and demand that, as a recognised Minority Group, we are “entitled” to something. Discussion follows…
I’m as far left as you can be and still see the center. And I do own cats.
Yet I agree with everything you say.
I only have an argument with #6. And it’s not in what you said.
It’s in that most American Corporations don’t care for the long run. They only care for what they can deliver to the stakeholders today. They will pollute as long as they are allowed to. They will cut corners.
I know you can probably point out exceptions to this.
