I'm Sorry, but It's Another Harry Potter (5) Thread (spoilers)

Cafe Society
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With spoilers. I got the DVD the other day, I find I need an HP fix. If you hate HP, don’t read on. If you’re a rabid fan–calm down! :wink: I am in the middle–I see major flaws in Rowling’s writing, but enjoyed the “saga” immensely.

Anyway, on to the movie. Please post what you liked and disliked about this film (Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix), and if there were things you noticed upon seeing the DVD that you did not notice when you saw it in the theater.

Overall, I like the film, with reservations. Either Gambon has not read the books or he is very badly directed or both. His scene with Harry at the end, which should be a release and a turning point in their relationship is the weakest part of the film, IMO, because it just didn’t happen. It was tepid, badly blocked (is that the correct term? I mean that it was just the two of them in profile–very static, very dull for what is actually a very powerful scene), and badly scripted.

Why include Grawp? So that the little kids can ooh and ah? (if so, ok–and I thought the bicycle bell was very deft), but the time wasted on Grawp could have been used on another plot point.

Emma Watson actually started to act mid way through the film. Sure, her grabbing of Harry’s hand was clumsily done (not her fault, again I think that’s due to poor direction), but her comment, “help us to” after Harry dismisses them both with, “you don’t understand” was quite good.
Rupert gets better and better. Did anyone else notice the costuming? HP is in solid colors, while Hermione and Ron are usually seen in stripes–subtle touch, maybe. Ginny does some very good acting–note her look as Hermione tells Harry that Cho can’t keep her eyes off him. Also, the look back as she leaves the Room of Requirement at Christmas time…
There’s more, but I want to hear from other folks, first. In sum, it’s not a bad film, but I am left dissatisfied. Oh, two last points:

  1. no Howler for Petunia? But that makes HP6 have that much more to explain.

  2. No inclusion of Lily in Snape’s memory? Kind of ruins the whole purpose and loses the subplot of mudblood etc. Again, that leaves more work to be done in film 6.

Biggest fear: that this director will dumb it all down so that the shades of character will be omitted for Snape, Lily, Petunia etc.
What are your thoughts?

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I think they didn’t handle the Cho subplot very well. In the book(s) I liked the fact that his first love was introduced in such a way that we could care about it. Then this relationship failed and he was at least partly responsible for that. It became obvious that they were not the right people for each other. He was right when he left her behind although she wasn’t a bad person (or an apparently bad person rehabilitated by deus ex machina without proper resolution.)

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Watched it last night. I think its the clumsiest of the films, with weird timing that diffused the desirable tension in many scenes.

Bad use of the color palate.

Choppy narratively and hard to follow if you don’t know the book.

Some good visual detail (such as the Black family tapestry). I wish the LOTR and HP movie people would publish big coffee table books with photos of the props and sets. The patronuses were managed well.

Most disturbing for me:

what on earth is up with Harry handing the prophecy to Lucius Malfoy?! It seriously undermines the notion of Harry’s determination and autonomy, and minimizes his and his friends’ bravery (as well as being untrue to the story). Maybe it’s intended to make Sirius’s sacrifice bigger, but I find it really cheapening.

If you’re jonesing for Harry Potter, have you looked at any of the essays or lit crit? Search Amazon for “Harry Potter essay” to get a good list. Some are single author; some are anthologies. It’s fun to look at the “how will it end?” books now that we know. In addition, there are Marxist critiques, Harry Potter and religion/philosophy/torah, Harry Potter and psychology, and a variety of others.

Amazon also has some information posted about the JKR handmade book they bought for $4mil.

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We watched it just the other night, and after a couple of scenes, RitzyRae said “I think there was something wrong with the color in that scene.” Nope, that’s just the way it was filmed.

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Shoshana–I just reread the whole series, just before the newest DVD came out. I am not real into the fan fic (slash fic?), but essays about the books sound better. I’ll look tomorrow, thanks.

It bothered me too that Harry just hands the prophecy over to Lucius.

I actually thought that the Cho stuff was well done. It’s hard to believe that Harry would just walk by her and not even ask about her betrayal, but it did solve the problem of introducing yet another character into the films. Although…
and this is my biggest beef with this director: who the hell is Nigel? He is in tons of scenes–I kept tripping over him and he bugs me. I’m assuming he’s the director’s nephew at this point. He’s red haired, thereby detracting and distracting from the Weasleys; he’s really too young to be in with this group of kids; there is no point to his being there. Grrrrr.

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Slash fic is the fan fic with homosexual pairings or relationships. All Harry Potter slash fiction is fan fiction; not all fan fiction is slash.

My quote-snipping took out your beef with Nigel, but I hate him to. As far as I can tell, he’s replacing Colin and Dennis in a very stupid move. He’s on par with the random kid (played by Ekow Quartey) who took all of Dean’s lines even though Dean was standing right there, except that at least Nigel makes some sense- Dennis wasn’t actually old enough to be at the pub, but if Colin was there and not Dennis it would be weird.

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I for one was annoyed that Rita Skeeter was completely missed out - I was looking forward to seeing her again.

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Yes, and she’ll need to dragged back in for her tell all book. There is NO reason she couldn’t have at least been in the pack of reporters following Fudge around.

And what was with the Orson Wellian 50ft banner of Fudge? He was NEVER a figure of power–he was the ultimate bureaucrat. It’s Scrimgeor who should have had that banner…

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Has anyone looked at the deleted scenes? There’s one scene where they show the whole great hall intro dinner, with Umbridge interrupting Dumbledore’s speech, and so on, but from Trelawney’s point of view. But Trelawney doesn’t actually really do anything. The camera’s on her for five minutes, just watching her eat and drink. Is there some point to this?

Overall I thought the movie was well done, one of the best adaptations in the series so far. I really thought a couple things should’ve been added that could’ve easily been put in:

  1. A 10-second explanation on what the veil is that Sirius fell through. Without the knowledge of the books I imagine that whole scene was really confusing.
  2. Some kind of reaction shot or even just shouted line that indicates the kids besides Harry and Luna freaking out over being suspended miles in the air on creatures they can’t see.
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eleanorigby, I recommend:

Mapping the World of Harry Potter (which Amazon has mistitled as “Mapping the World of the Sorcerer’s Apprentice” for some odd reason)
Harry Potter’s World: Multidisciplinary Critical Perspectives
The Psychology of Harry Potter: An Unauthorized Examination of the Boy Who Lived
Reading Harry Potter: Critical Essays
Mugglenet.Com’s What Will Happen in Harry Potter 7: Who Lives, Who Dies, Who Falls in Love and How Will the Adventure Finally End

Books speculating on Book 7 are to be had for pennies. There are several single-author books on religion and philosophy, but I prefer the anthologies. I’m waiting for a really excellent anthology that looks at the entire series.

Amazon has shifted their reader tags so “Harry Potter essays” is only bringing up the one new book they’re plugging. Without quotes, it’s not bringing up some that are tagged that way anyway, so I’ve linked them above. However, if I were buying, I’d see what I could find at Powell’s or some other independent bookseller.

There was a book published by BenBella for Borders called The Great Snape Debate that was okay and included an essay by Orson Scott Card.

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Maybe Miranda Richardson had other commitments and couldn’t be pulled back for 5 minutes of screen time?

I think the casting of Luna Lovegood was spot-on. She may have been, as others said, to pretty to be the book version of Luna, but she had the personality down perfect.

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I liked Luna. I thought she should have come across as more percipient on film, but that’s very minor. I wish I could have heard say stuff like, “it’s almost like having friends”–I love her way of speaking awkward truths.

I doubt that any actor would be “too busy” to be in an HP film–these are guaranteed money in the bank for the next few decades. I put all this on the director, with whom I am not too impressed.
Things I loved about the film:

Harry’s approach to Cho and the kiss. Nicely done.

The “kiss and tell” part right afterwards–Ron was very funny and genuine, and Hermione (finally) managed to laugh at herself.

The Evil Quill and Harry’s response and then his response to Hermione re “whatever this is, it’s not simple.”

The patronuses (patroni?)–I wish we could have seen Harry’s again, though.
Neville coming into his own.
Luna and her Chuck Taylor’s.
I really liked the presentation of the thestrals–they look just like I thought they would. I really liked the scene with Luna and Harry when they feed the fawn(?–what does one call a new thestral? A foal? A fawn?)
Snape was fabulous as always–and note that what he tells Harry re the Dark Lord is spot on, it’s just his tone is just so nasty, the message gets lost. I loves me some Alan Rickman.

Oldman was good as Sirius as well–especially when he is so dismissive of Kreacher (who looks nothing like I pictured him at all).

Smith was robbed of her great scene re Harry’s future career prospects, but she is still so good as McGonagall. I wish we had had the scene of her giving Harry a ginger snap and telling him to watch his step.
Shoshana–thanks so much for those links! A pleasurable afternoon awaits me…

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[QUOTE=Shoshana]
eleanorigby, I recommend:
Mugglenet.Com’s What Will Happen in Harry Potter 7: Who Lives, Who Dies, Who Falls in Love and How Will the Adventure Finally End

Has anyone read this? If so, I’m curious as to what they predicted and how on target they were.

:confused:

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I’m going to look for The Critical Essays one at Borders later this week. Thanks!

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I think this line is from Book 6, but I agree. Hope it makes it into the next movie, along with her Quidditch commentary.

From the extras (I think) the director stated that that laughter was genuine. It wasn’t in the script, the kids just started laughing and he kept the camera rolling.

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I thought the movie was terribly edited. Lots of continuity errors, left out scenes (that seemed to have been filmed but were cut for time), lack of plot progression and important character development to have a LONG conversation that led nowhere. The bicycle bell scene didn’t work for me because they left out the shot of Hermione giving Grawp back the bell. It goes from her hands in one shot to his, way up at his chest level in the next. Very jarring.

Leaving out certain things, such as the beginning of the mysteries area, where they have to find their way to the prophecy room, made it all seem too easy. And what the hell was the flashing around (turning in to mist and bamf-ing like Nightcrawler in the department of mysteries when they clearly showed Fred and George apparating cleanly, just as it was described in the book.

I agree that Gambon never read the books, or was terribly directed. In the Goblet of Fire, he actually SHAKES Harry. Dumbledore would never do that.

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In the Psychology of HP book, there’s an essay on the failure of career counseling at Hogwarts.

Mahaloth, I read it but I read several “what will happen…?” books at the same time, so I don’t remember who predicted what. I recall that that one went into some depth about the horcruxes and about the hallows of the Fisher King, but JKR didn’t much go that way. It got some parts of the locket’s theft right, but just off enough to be really enjoyable.

My very brief reviews of some of these:

The Wisdom of Harry Potter: What Our Favorite Hero Teaches Us about Moral Choices
The Psychology of Harry Potter: An Unauthorized Examination of the Boy Who Lived and TOC in my comment here
The Great Snape Debate
The End of Harry Potter? An Unauthorized Guide to the Mysteries That Remain
The Unauthorized Harry Potter
Mugglenet.Com’s What Will Happen in Harry Potter 7
If Harry Potter Ran General Electric: Leadership Wisdom from the World of the Wizards

At Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows you’ll find my own pre-HPDH predictions behind a spoiler cut.

If you must: Barry Trotter and the Unauthorized Parody.

I have but haven’t yet read The Ivory Tower And Harry Potter: Perspectives On A Literary Phenomenon.

I’ve read Harry Potter and Philosophy: If Aristotle Ran Hogwarts, or nearly so (I can’t remember right now). It’s better than Kerns.

On the more glossary/fandom/non-criticism side, there’s Muggles and Magic: An Unofficial Guide to J.k. Rowling and the Harry Potter Phenomenon, which I have only dipped into.

There are a number of books (kid-focused) on the mythology and history behind HP, as well as mini-bios of JKR.

I’d skip The Science of Harry Potter.

I’ve read a few others, but I’ll stop here.

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I agree–and why have Grawp at all? Rowling did this giant thing and let the thread go–they weren’t decisive in the Battle of Hogwarts. When I reread the books, I tend to skip that whole subplot. I liked the scene with the bicycle bell because it was cute, but none of it was needed. Others things were needed, but left out. Argh!

I think that was to show how wizards battle/duel. But not 5 minutes later, AD and LV do NOT battle/duel that way at all, so who knows… It is certainly not the way I pictured spells flying, but it is one way of depicting “magic”, I suppose.

That scene in GOF was when I decided I didn’t care for his interp of AD. It’s not that I want Richard Harris back or that I wouldn’t accept any other AD, but he is NOT portraying the character as written. I thought I saw in one of the added features that he hasn’t read the books? Dunno. He projected no power or majesty or fear in the MOM; Voldy looks like he could knock AD over with a quick breath.

Also, the Special Features disc has to be the lamest of any of them. “Deleted” scenes that aren’t even blocked or timed etc? And then there are only 2-3 of them! Why not some bloopers? Why not some real deleted scenes?

The one that shows Trellawney eating while Umbridge drones on is supposed to be high comedy. Thompson does it well, but I’m glad it was cut. No idea why she just doesn’t LOOK at her plate–that type of comedy is tedious to me.

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I haven’t seen it since it was int the third-run theaters, but I remember most of all being disappointed with the fact that they seemed to cut or completely re-write all the most cinematic scenes from the book (including Harry’s talk with Dumbledore and especially Sirius’ mother).

Also, the scene in the common room, where they were sitting around the fire was just awful. They had them all bunched up together in tableau, which contributed to the really lousy acting in that scene.

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Oh–and I’m guessing I’m the only one here who has HPPS in Khmer? :slight_smile: