Agreed, and my credentials are that I’m a dad raising two girls. The more I read the OP’s defenses of his behavior, the more I think he’s acting like a great big baby.
OP: Have you considered divorce? You sound toxic to your family.
Dude, your contempt for your daughters AND your wife is showing through in every post you make. Maybe it’s justified in your wife’s case, maybe not; I don’t know either of you and I don’t know. But it isn’t justified in your daughters’ case; like just about everyone in this thread has said, most of what you’ve described is totally normal kid behavior, and the parts that aren’t (like not wanting to engage with you) sound like a perfectly normal reaction to being stuck in a family situation where at least one and maybe both parents are oozing anger and resentment. I don’t know if you need family therapy or a divorce or what, but if you don’t deal with it, OF COURSE your kids are going to retreat into their smartphones, because they need somewhere to retreat to and they’re too young to physically get away.
Maybe you can take some of the suggestions that have been offered to you under consideration instead of trying to turn yourself into a travel martyr.
Like, I would have left their mom at home if I had been you. She didn’t want to go and it doesn’t sound like she offered you much in companionship or support. Perhaps without her presence, the girls would have had a different attitude. Alternatively, next time you could invite another adult who the girls respect (such as a “fun” aunt or cousin) to join you on a trip. The other adult might do the stuff your significant other is unable or unwilling to do: support your ideas while deciphering what the girls’ wishes are.
Or maybe the next trip, you can let them do their own thing while you do your own. You meet up for breakfast and dinner and maybe you do a couple of family things over the course of the whole trip, but otherwise everyone’s doing what they want to do.
Did you communicate to your girls that their attitudes left much to be desired? Did you tell them to put their phones away? Did you try to cheer them up when their moods were flagging? Bratty kids don’t always know they are being bratty. It’s up to parents to rein them in and help them to express themselves more constructively (like how Nava suggested).
Not planning any more trips is a pretty shitty response to one bad trip. And I would argue that the trip wasn’t that bad in the grand scheme of things. No one got sick or injured or molested. There were no big blow-out fights between you and your significant other (I hope). Most everyone got to do something they wanted to do, even if it didn’t wasn’t the best thing ever. Your kids probably have much fonder memories of this experience than you have.
It sounds to me you are more bummed out that your kids aren’t the intellectually curious people you’d like them to be than anything else. I think it’s okay to be bummed out about this, but just remember a person can be intellectually curious without giving a shit about foreign languages, museums, and historical landmarks. So don’t judge your girls too harshly based on this one experience.
The lesson here is less planning is best when you’re traveling with them. Instead of mapping out the entire day in advance, you pick one or two things to shoot for and be open for the rest.
Also, if you ask a kid what they want to do, it’s kind of jerkish to be judgmental when they say something like eat at KFC. Yes, it would be better if they said something more cultured, but you shouldn’t be asking for their input if what you really want is for them to go along with whatever it is you want to do.
See post #27. It’s another way of having fun on a family trip without committing yourself to the whims of the group.
But I never judged her for saying that she wanted to eat at KFC ! I even laughed the first time she said it. Really, I’m becoming more and more convinced that I’m expressing myself very poorly.
I am.
OK, your answers have left me with a lot to process.
I may have overreacted to the situation. A lot of you disagree with my reading of what happened and, while you weren’t there and don’t know anything about the overall context, it’s something that I just can’t ignore. Thanks, I’ll be thinking about all of this.
I like this, thanks.
I think what I’m picking up on is your disappointment in things that are fairly standard for kids. Okay, maybe you didn’t judge her for wanting to go to KFC, but you did tell us it drove you crazy that they insisted on going to KFC on Friday despite also going on Weds. But they did this after you promised (your word) that they could go; can’t you see that you enabled the thing that you’re saying bothered you? If two KFC trips struck you as crazy, then you could’ve and should’ve told them a Weds visit precluded another visit.
It is clear there are problems with your relationship with your wife that go beyond our pay grade. These problems could be affecting how you relate to your daughters as well.
And a few years after that, when they’re choosing a nursing home for the OP.
Whether or not your evaluation of this coipke’s relationship is correct, it’s not a valid assumption to make based merely in language. He’s Belgian and English is his second—possibly third or fourth—language. There could be many cultural factors involved in the choice of words.
My parents, for example, come from a culture in which it’s considered inappropriately intimate to say “my husband” or “my wife.” It’s very common to say “the kids’ mother/father.”
I think you should get a divorce and plan to live alone. You seem to truly despise and hate your spouse, as well as your children.
Seeing as your children are behaving very much as nearly all children do, and you loathe them for it, I’m not seeing a lot of up side to you spending any more time with them than necessary.
My credentials are that I have raised 3 teenagers into adulthood. They are all 3 great adults. My youngest was not a difficult teen, but she had her days, I tell you. Raising teen boys has it’s own trials. But they are nothing like girls. It’s just different. I loved being with my teens. They were finally able to have enjoyable conversations with varying opinions. By the time they reached highschool I was already dreading them leaving, like all kids must do. If you can’t stand your teen it’s your own fault*. You raised that monster, look in the mirror.
*there could be extenuating circumstances, I guess.
I don’t think it is unusual for young teens to be more interested in Harry Potter, KFC, and swimming than seeing historical sights.
What is more concerning is the obvious antipathy between you and “their mother” who is also presumably your wife. Is there any joy in this relationship or is this marriage a kind of prison sentence that you are both serving out?
Sigh. As per usual on the Dope, anyone complaining about their personal lives is mobbed with exhortations to get divorced.
Well I don’t think I’ve ever advised anyone to get divorced before. Perhaps it is the Dope Influence at work.
They do say that the surest sign that a marriage is on the rocks is the emotion of disgust. Not anger, not frustration. Disgust seems to be what is on display here. I could be wrong of course.
It’s a fair cop for this community. People can be a little quick to jump on the “dump him/her” train. Still, this…
…is pretty bad. I’m not usually one to give advice to random people on the internet about their love lives, even when it is solicited. But that kind of comment invites an awful lot of speculation and judgement.
Well all I can say is I am really glad I am not one of the OP’s kid’s. I could barely get through two paragraphs without wanting to shoot myself. In two or three years the OP will be writing a thread complaining about how those kids are suicidal, and what an absolute burden it is for him.
If the OP thinks that his children are not affected negatively by the incredible hostility he feels for their mother and she apparently feels for him, he is dreaming. I’m surprised the kids were as easy to get along with as they were. If I had grown up with parents like those I can’t even imagine how depressed, sullen and unresponsive I would have become. Express an interest in anything? Hell no.
It’s horrible for the average person. My sister isn’t really an average person so it didn’t effect her so much - she went to therapy for three years and she seems fine as far as I can tell, but I don’t talk to her much.
For me I didn’t turn out so well; I get by, live a normal life but there’s problems - I don’t really make friends and my personality is just plain annoying, like anywhere I go people would find me annoying. It’s just very sad really, you don’t really bond with people so you really miss out in a way, nothing you accomplish and no amount of money you make can replace that lack of fulfillment in your life. The way the OP judges his kids, that really wears on people too, its a hidden sort of thing that can cause all sorts of psychological damage but it’s kind of worse then physical abuse because it’s not something that’s easily definable. Sometimes people who grow up in these situations become very confused because outwardly things are sort of the same, but their environment is so different from their peers in an undefinable way that they are out of sync and don’t understand why. It’s not a comfortable feeling.
I’m with your wife on this one. Zero times was too many for me for those places, let alone twice. If Google Street View is to be believed, it isn’t the type of culture I’m keen on voluntarily exposing myself to more of. Then again, it would beat the poolside, but is probably slightly worse than KFC as long as I only have it once every couple years.
Huge change in your story, which is typical when you get called on things. There was never a time I couldn’t hold a conversation with my daughter and we couldn’t find things we’d both enjoy to spend time together. Every child grows and changes in unique ways. It is far past time we drop the bullshit about teenage girls being evil, especially when it comes from other women.
It’s funny, because I get included a great deal in things my daughter does with her friends by virtue of having the house they hang out in. They are awesome kids who care about the world and I cannot wait to see what they do. They have insights, passions, and dreams that are amazing. You know who I hear the “lol, trying to survive being the parents of girls” language from? The parents of those very same girls who can’t be bothered to engage them as people and buy the stereotypes. Gosh, I wonder why these young women act out towards them or freeze them out?
THANK YOU. The examples he gives of these terrible and unforgivable atrocities are…pretty banal. Tired kids not feeling the activities planned out by Dad but expected to be enjoyed, dammit!